posted 04-27-2008 07:36 PM            

Here's hoping I have mastered how to post pictures. By way of background I should explain I live in England and have been collecting silver, mostly early English spoons, for 20 plus years. This gives me a particular take on "souvenir" spoons. On my first trip to the USA I bought the coin silver teaspoon illustrated above. The attraction was that its form and decoration seemed typically American, making an interesting contrast with the rest of my collection. It is marked J&AS which I take to be J and A Simmons of New York, and I assume it was made somewhere around 1810. I don't really have any question to pose about this spoon though I would be happy if forum members felt like offering me any further information (my only reference book for American makers and marks is Wyler's Book of Old Silver).

I do however have questions about the dognose spoon below which I bought on a subsequent visit to the USA when I was tempted to go for something earlier. It is about 5 inches long, rather larger than teaspoon size. If it were from Scotland I would be tempted to describe it as a "masking" or "mashing" spoon (used to stir the tea in the pot). As the mark was not fully readable, I had to take it on trust that this is indeed an early American spoon.

In the photo the mark looks rather like XB, but I think the apparent X is really the worn remnant of some more complex lettering. The nearest match I can make is the CVB conjoined of Cornelius Vanderburgh of New York but this involves some heroic assumptions about the outline of the punch being lost because it overlapped the stem in addition to the initial letter being very worn.

Moreover, I understand Vanderburgh was no longer on the scene by 1699 and I would have thought this spoon more likely to date from around 1710-1720, so I am left with a number of questions:

Am I justified in believing this is indeed an early American spoon? If so, what is its likely date? Could an American dognose of this form be as early as the 1690s or am I right to assume 1710-1720?

Does anyone recognize the mark? Is my reading of it completely wishful? Or could I be right about both the date of the spoon and the mark if the CVB punch continued to be used by Vanderburgh's successors in business as sometimes happened elsewhere?

Any light that can be thrown by those who are knowledgeable about American silver will be most welcome, even if it simply serves to dash any hopes of identifying the maker!

posted 04-28-2008 05:44 AM            

Great information you have told in your topic about these two old spoons. Like you told you are collecting more than twenty years so that is a lot of time and in that time you have formed a lot of knowledge, that's for sure. My compliments for the style you write this topic I enjoyed reading it a lot.

The pattern last pattern is new to me, but it's nice that I hope that van den Burgh has made this one. Collecting old silver is like archeology there is a lot of background information to tell about a subject and I think it's always a challenge to find and buy an older silver piece than you had before (where does this end?). Both spoons are in good condition and the last one is eccentric in shape(I never saw such one). I try to find something about CvB if I find something I let you know.

posted 04-28-2008 07:07 AM            

The second spoon, which I described as dognose, is a variant of the pattern of the pig spoons that you illustrated in another post. The term dognose refers to the bump at the end of the stem. The shape is sometimes also called wavy end or shield top.

posted 04-28-2008 09:42 AM            

I take your point. If I had come across the spoon here in the UK I would have said "Not English, possibly North European", but I lack familiarity with American forms and how far they vary from the English. As far as the mark goes, I may well be clutching at straws!

Doc

Thanks for the confirmation.

posted 04-28-2008 01:47 PM            

The mark (possibly WVB, but too early for Wiliam Van Buren) is typical of European marks of this and earlier period (and some Provincial English)that had conjoined initials; this tradition was carried to the New World by Dutch silversmiths and such marks can be expected to be found on spoons from the Dutch communities (principally New York City and Albany) and Dutch families elsewhere with New York connections.

The first initial and the other two are not contemproaneous; the first, which is pricked rather than engraved, is another feature characteristically European. Engraved initials appear everywhere, but are less common in early European spoons (especially the "provincial" Germanic, many of which are much lighter) than the pricked ones.

Other features of the spoon (proportions, weight, etc.)I do not think would rule out an Anglo-American origin in and of themselves, and I have seen lobes later bent up on European spoons "posing" as American, so such a spoon could be altered either by an unscrupulous dealer, or a misguided collector thinking to "restore" a spoon he thinks altered to its "original" condition. I have seen none bent the other way.

On balance, without further evidence (no provinance, and being unable to clearly make out and identify the mark,) I would not think this spoon American. It is nonetheless a nice example of the period.

posted 04-28-2008 05:03 PM            

Many thanks for this. I don't think the spoon is English, probably for much the same reasons that you think it unlikely to be American. Pity - perhaps not the brightest choice for an American "souvenir" - but on the other hand there is in a way more fun in a piece about which there is some uncertainty. It prompts thinking and research whereas there is little more to do than admire a documentary piece with well known and identified marks. At least, thus do I console myself.

Incidentally, the known provenance of the piece does not go back before my purchase of it from an upmarket New York dealer (a firm which I believe started off in London) but I guess no dealer is going to make too much of the possibility that a swan may turn out to be goose!

posted 04-28-2008 07:41 PM            

Well, it had turned up in America; American spoons of the period typically just carried a maker's mark; and it looked right to him.

posted 05-02-2008 12:00 PM            

I've just re-read your comments and realise there was an interesting point you made about the lobe on the dognose terminal that I didn't pick up in my response. I had not realised that a down-turned lobe was a European feature. I've obviously been too narrowly pre-occupied with British spoons.