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 American Silver before sterling
 Strawberries! and a mark question
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| Author | Topic: Strawberries! and a mark question |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-25-2009 11:59 AM
  
Yesterday the first strawberries appeared in our farmers' market, so I bought a piece of silver to celebrate. The seller at the flea market where I bought it told me it was "sterling silver, over 200 years old, from the 18th century." I guess he saw the skeptical look on my face, so he said, "I guarantee it's sterling silver. I took it to 47th Street [the jewelry district] and had it tested. The guy stamped it for me. Look. It says 925." Obviously this cup is not from the 18th century--is my guess of 1850s correct? And what about that 925 stamp? I assume this is--or was, before the guy on 47th Street got his hands on it--unmarked coin silver. Is it possible that whatever test he did was sensitive enough to determine that it is, in fact, 925 parts silver? Or was he just saying, basically, "This is solid silver, not plated"? And does the mark affect the cup adversely? It's pretty small and discreet. Should I try to take it off or just ignore it? (The cup was inexpensive and I'm not planning to sell it--I just want the little thing to be happy.) IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 05-25-2009 01:12 PM
I'd say your guess is in the right ballpark timewise. Most likely it is not Sterling, or it probably would have been so marked on the bottom. The 925 is a later addition - I'd ignore it and leave it alone - removal would be damaging and would leave a question as to what was removed. Nice cup. Enjoy it. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-25-2009 01:41 PM
Thank you, Stuart! IP: Logged |
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Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 05-25-2009 02:32 PM
I agree properly not 925 most likely 830 or some other European standard. European standard is not plated though many Americans wrongly assume that if not sterling then plate. The mark does not add value to your piece - it is just the opposite. So you where wrong to have it marked. In theory the use of "proberseure für silber" should turn read and in theory one should be able to determine the degree of silver. I say in theory. I have tested/tried. I tested various types of silver 950 better that sterling. 925, 830, 800, 11 lødigt - I did use proberseüre took a picture - compare. The problem is that picture should be taken exactly same amounts of seconds after the asid has been put on the silver. Light should be the same etc. Everything being equal but silver contents. IP: Logged |
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Brent Posts: 1507 |
posted 05-25-2009 02:40 PM
Hi, I'm 99% sure that this is a piece of American coin silver. As Stuart says, the 925 mark is almost certainly a later addition. Though not common, I have encountered pieces of American coin silver (and a few pieces of plate) with recently added STERLING stamps, surely intended to make the pieces more saleable. Your mark was probably put on just before you bought it. Regardless, a nice old cup! Brent IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-25-2009 02:56 PM
I don't think I wrote my first post clearly enough. The seller told me he took the cup to a jeweler to have it tested and marked before he sold it. I guess he thought potential buyers wouldn't believe it was really silver if it didn't have a mark. I certainly wouldn't have put the mark on myself! The mark is on the bottom of the cup, which is otherwise not marked. [This message has been edited by Polly (edited 05-25-2009).] IP: Logged |
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Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 05-25-2009 03:28 PM
ok misunderstood. what is it 1 cm over 9? sure that is not a mark - I think it could be. based upon style my "gestimate" is 1860 to 1880. [This message has been edited by Hose_dk (edited 05-25-2009).] IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-25-2009 03:30 PM
I think it's just a deep scratch or dent. Maybe that's where the jeweler tested the metal. There are dents here and there, but no marks. [This message has been edited by Polly (edited 05-25-2009).] IP: Logged |
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Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 05-25-2009 03:33 PM
no it is not left overs from testing. Looks very different. but could be just a stroke to the silver. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-25-2009 03:41 PM
Hose, we were editing our posts at the same time, I think. I'm pretty sure it's earlier than you think. By the 1870s and 80s, this style would have been old fashioned in America, and it American silversmiths were using sterling by then. Also, I'm pretty sure the cup is hand raised rather than spun. (Did I get the terminology right?) The bottom is not flat, but rounded like a sphere. I believe that technique was more common earlier, yes? IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-25-2009 03:45 PM
Here's the cup upside down, to show what I mean about the rounded bottom: IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 05-25-2009 04:02 PM
Just for comparison, here is a similar mug: I would say c 1840/1850; I would put yours a bit earlier. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 05-25-2009 04:30 PM
If it were hand-raised there should be a small centering punch mark in the middle of the outer bottom of the cup; any any original marks would have been placed nearby, and not on the foot ring (so anyone should know the 925 was not original, and hence there is no worry about leaving it). IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 05-25-2009 05:19 PM
Great first image. I don't know which looks better the cup or the strawberries. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-25-2009 06:51 PM
There it is! The bellybutton! I mean, the punch mark. How exciting--now I'm going to go look for bellybuttons on all my cups. Bascall, can I offer you a strawberry? Nice and juicy today. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-25-2009 06:59 PM
I found another 925 mark, on the handle. They're like measles! Poor little cup, I hope they don't spread. IP: Logged |
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taloncrest Posts: 169 |
posted 05-25-2009 06:59 PM
Strawberry season is just ending here. Today was the last day the "u-pick-its" are open. I was told the pickings were very sparse on Friday. I've usually had my fill of them by the time it ends. That is a beautiful cup. I've got one of those crystal with sterling top marmalade/jellys with a strawberry design cut into the glass. I'd never seen one before, so I had to have it! (the strawberry design, that is!) IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 05-26-2009 09:54 AM
Pretty cup Polly. In a pinch these cups make nice julep cups -they frost up just like a beaker does. Your cup looks like other coin silver cups from the 1840s, but I do wonder how a hollow handle was stamped with 925 without damage to the handle. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-26-2009 12:13 PM
Thanks! The stamp is tiny and close to where the handle attaches to the body. I guess it's small enough that it didn't take much force to stamp it, and the handle seems pretty thick and sturdy--there are no other noticeable dents in it. IP: Logged |
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Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 05-26-2009 06:02 PM
I did write gestimate - to show that I was guessing age. The ear of the cup - I would call i Biedermeier and in denmark Biedermeier is 1820 to 1870 - the strawberry I would place late in that period. But you might be right. IP: Logged |
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Marc Posts: 414 |
posted 05-26-2009 06:49 PM
Polly, Great mug! Yummy strawberries...on the cup and next to it. Thanks for sharing.. And the "new" 925 marks.. let the next generation worry about how they got there... Enjoy.. Marc IP: Logged |
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