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 American Silver before sterling
 Samuel Burt via Scotland and Nassau?
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| Author | Topic: Samuel Burt via Scotland and Nassau? |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 07-04-2009 12:11 PM
  
Hello all, life takes some funny turns and one has happened to me, it is a long story and I will make it as short as I can instead of just asking my question because it is amusing. Just over a month ago I finished a repair of a 15” Mapin and Webb 1932 ship model of the Santa Maria for a client in Nassau. I had a Bahamian stepmother and spent some time there as a child up to 20 something. Through a friend I had been recommended for the job. It was an involved and delicate repair and took some time so shipping was going to be expensive and risky. It was agreed by the client that a cheap round trip ticket to Nassau and hand carrying it was the best solution. When I arrived on a Sunday I was told that Monday June 1st was a Bahamian holiday. The meeting to make the delivery was made for Tuesday and on Monday I went to an Island 4 miles from Nassau with an (ex-step) cousin and her in laws to spend the day at a lovely weekend house. At one point a passing remark was made that the care taker was leaving for 3 weeks and a house sitter was needed, - I said I would do that in a NY minute! - end of conversation, nobody then said what a great idea. 3 days after I got home I got a call asking if I had been serious, long story short I am slightly sun burnt, water logged and enjoying fresh fish speared on the reef near the house! But its not all work... yesterday the wife and I went to Nassau where I nipped into an antique shop. After the usual look at EPNS spoons the very nice couple asked what I thought of a lovely little boxed Mappin and Webb (ironically) 1906 arts and craft christening cup and spoon the owner had just brought from Scotland on a buying trip. A glance at the little cup, very nice, modest but well done and the spoon, WHOA… that’s a US coin spoon with a lovely Rococo shell back. What was it doing filling in the fitted slot for a Birmingham spoon? A quick negotiation to make a spoon to fit the box better in the hand hammered style and a reasonable sum and it was mine. So, here we have a U.S. 1750-ish spoon just arrived from an Aberdeen thrift shop in a shop on Bay street Nassau! The initials are S.B script in a rectangle, it is 4 3/8th inches. It has a down turned tip and initials T.W on top that are contemporary. The drop is bold and surounded by the very lovely delicate scallop (ed) rococo shell. The Question is “Whats the best cure for sunburn? Is this Samuel Burt or am I completely missing the mark? I have no books and on the net I can only find a picture of his full mark, which is script. There is talk of a spoon by him in an old post. I have given the dealer this sight and they too are interested. Thank you for any help. The P.S. to this is that I am a descendent of the Burts, Samuels sister Sarah was a great-great! IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 07-04-2009 01:50 PM
Will get a picture of the mark? There was an SB mark in an oval attributed in the 1960s by Kovel, but Kane notes that it has not otherwise been seen. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 07-04-2009 01:56 PM
Unfortunately, Samuel Burt died in 1754, too early to have made a downturned spoon. He also has no verified initial mark - his silver is quite scarce, and Kane gives only a full name mark and one with a first initial and full last name. A spoon of that size likely was made before 1800 - anywhere between the late 1760's and 1790's. Samuel Bartlett has a script initial mark, and it could be his, but without a photograph it is hard to say. I don't know if you ever saw the earlier thread about a an early cream pot that may have been made by him for his future bride, but in view of your ancestry it might be well to call it to your attention. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 07-04-2009).] IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 07-04-2009 03:07 PM
Oh well... "Samuel Bartlett has a script initial mark" This must be it. Thank you both I will do pictures when I get home. It is still a neat little spoon and I love the way it was found. Any thoughts on its getting to Scotland? IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 07-04-2009 03:29 PM
You can see the mark here. IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 07-04-2009 04:27 PM
Swarter, yes I did see the lovely Burt pot when I did a search. I am the proud care taker of small simple Burt bowl that I always thought came down from the Sarah Burt side of the family in Boston but another branch had bought it and it went to Philladelphia and then it came back to Boston in the 20th C. IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 07-04-2009 04:34 PM
Wev, again thanks thats it! So ithe spoon is later than I thought. My guess was that rococo started in 1730's france and in England 1740's and U.S. 1750 but it was a much later because S. Bartlett could not have made this until 1770's. At least its from boston... now lets see the initials - do I have any T.Ws in the family tree??? [This message has been edited by agleopar (edited 07-04-2009).] IP: Logged |
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jersey Posts: 1203 |
posted 07-04-2009 07:20 PM
Hi! Cure for sunburn........go to drug store & get Burrows solution & a box of cotton roll. Take one part of the solution to 3 or 4 parts water & soak the cotton strip, squeeze excess water out. Place on affected area. Steam may come out & that's a good thing. There is also another name for the solution it is aluminum acetate, incase the drug store doesn't carry the Burrows as such. Keep applying till you feel better........hope you do. Let me know how you do. Jersey [This message has been edited by jersey (edited 07-04-2009).] IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 07-04-2009 11:44 PM
Hi Jersey, I was joking about the sun burn but thank you, I will keep the Burrows for the future. Sorry it was not accompanied with a ;-} IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 07-05-2009 05:37 PM
Re; “Any thoughts on its getting to Scotland?” In researching the provenance of a piece of English silver I came across a couple of examples of immigrants returning to the UK. The sons of a cadet branch of a family had settled in America. The last male heir in the senior branch died young without issue. The family estates, in England but on the Scottish borders, passed to members of the cadet branch who returned to this country to take up their unexpected and not insignificant inheritance, doubtless bringing with them whatever portable valuables they had acquired in America. I can’t stretch this to make the happy coincidence of a connection with your spoon – the initials are wrong - but I would imagine there was a fair amount of such coming and going across the Atlantic. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 07-05-2009 07:04 PM
As families moved both ways, so did their silver. Dealers also buy and move things. It is not uncommon to find silver made in one country with import marks of another. Here is an example of an early American made spoon that travelled to France, to England, and back again.: Travelling silversmith, well-travelled spoon [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 07-10-2009).] IP: Logged |
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jersey Posts: 1203 |
posted 07-06-2009 12:40 PM
Hello again! Well I am glad you did not suffer from sunburn. I might also add that I would not have known what the symbol meant even if you had accompanied the message with a ;-} Have a great day! Jersey [This message has been edited by jersey (edited 07-07-2009).] IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 07-09-2009 10:40 PM
Agphile, (Swarter again)thanks for the run down on the returning Brits, I realize that this spoon could have been taken back any time. Jersey I think they call it a smiley face to show humor in the internet universe where it is sometimes hard to discern ... I warped it a little to make it wink and have a crinkley smile. Normally it is :-) mine was IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 07-10-2009 08:07 AM
Have you learned about forum SMILIES (click here)  IP: Logged |
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jersey Posts: 1203 |
posted 07-10-2009 02:08 PM
I love it! Thank you so much agleopar. I'm not sure about the "on their side" part, but no mas! Thank you too Scott for your smilies info. Jersey IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 03-12-2010 09:45 AM
   Sorry, finally have a new camera, here are the Samuel Bartlett spoon images. Thanks to all for the help last summer. IP: Logged |
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FredZ Posts: 1070 |
posted 03-12-2010 02:28 PM
Wonderful early spoon. I love the modified shell drop on the back of the bowl. Fred IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 03-12-2010 06:40 PM
Thanks Fred, It was such a fun find and it is now one of my favorite spoons. IP: Logged |
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