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 American Silver before sterling
 What's going on with this creamer?
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| Author | Topic: What's going on with this creamer? |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 08-14-2009 12:34 PM
  
I bought this creamer in an online auction. It was advertised as unmarked coin silver, from c. 1800. I didn't pay all that much for it. When I got it I was puzzled. It's heavy and well made for the most part, but the handle and ball feet are badly soldered on, there are blobs of solder on the bottom, and the handle is placed crookedly. But most of all, the proportions seem somehow off. My husband, a graphic designer, laughed out loud when he saw it. "Wow, that's one weird-looking creamer." he said. I stared at it for a while and then it struck me: It must have once had a pedestal base, which someone not very skillful removed and replaced with the lumpy ball feet. Do you think I'm right? Any guesses on the period it was made? Does 1800 seem right, or a decade or two later? Period when it was repaired? They used a rolled band to make the new handle--unless it's the old handle badly soldered back on, but if so, why didn't the original maker make the handle from a band that matches one of the other two patterns already used? Here's the pitcher, which is 5 1/2 inches tall and about the same width, to the top corner of the handle: The blobby soldered bottom, which has numbers lightly scratched, but no stamps: Asymmetrically placed handle: Close-up of the largest rolled decorative band: Funny proportions (and monogram, feathered "MP," placed awkwardly low): IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 08-14-2009 12:57 PM
It occurred to me to look up the MILLED bands in the Glossary of Milled Bands thread (as soon as I figured out that the term is "milled" rather than "rolled"). I find that the upper and lower edges of my pitcher use a band the thread calls "Circled Stars" (Philadelphia, Ward & Cox; Chaudron's & Rasch (?)), and the handle is either "Leaf and vine 1" (Philadelphia,Amable Brasier/Chaudron's & Rasch) or "Leaf and vine2" (Boston, Nathan Hobbs). Does this suggest that my creamer was made in Philadelphia, perhaps by Chaudron's & Rasch? Or maybe made in Philadelphia and repaired in Boston? I didn't find the other band--the one I showed a close-up of--in the glossary. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 08-14-2009 01:25 PM
Okay, reading this thread, Connections with the past , I find that Chaudron pieces are known to have extra solder on the bottom. So maybe I'm wrong about the missing pedestal and this is the original bottom? (But where are the marks?) Perhaps I'll shut up now and wait to hear from one of you nice people who actually knows something about silver... IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 08-14-2009 01:37 PM
Maybe a bit beaten up, but it certainly could be all original. Ball feet appear around 1810 and the style of this creamer is right for 1810-20 or so. It is not uncommon for handles to come loose and be reattached, and were usually of milled bands, although most were reeded or some other similar simple design. If the handle were reattached, you should be able to detect the repair on the inside of the pot. Similarly styled pots were more commonly pedestal mounted, but some had ball feet or simply sat flat on the table. Not every silversmith's designs were proportionally pleasing to the eye of today's observer, however, but this one is not at all atypical in its proportions or construction. Also, the lack of a maker or retailer mark is not a cause for concern about authenticity - it happens frequently, especially on pieces made for the trade. Milled bands can be clues to origin, as you have surmised, but not proof, as the jury is still out since our samples for any one pattern are too small for definite conclusions [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 08-14-2009).] IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 08-14-2009 01:51 PM
Polly Here are two English cream jugs of the period. That on the left from 1809 and on the right a scan of one from 1805 which seems to be the pattern that bits of yours are based on. I think it is the spare tyres round the middle of yours that throw the proportions out. Could they be from something else, creating a sort of Frankenstein assemblage of body parts? However, perhaps I should defer to Swarter here (as pretty well always)and accept that America by this date was not slavishly following English styles IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 08-14-2009 01:56 PM
Thank you for the response, Stuart. Hm...I don't see any signs inside of the handle being reattached, so maybe you're right and it IS original. It's just that it's stuck on with so much blobby solder, and it's noticeably off center at the top. And there's so much extra solder at the bottom. Maybe the handle and feet were attached by a sulky teenage apprentice. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 08-14-2009 02:07 PM
Thanks, Agphile--I was typing while you were posting. I love your term "spare tyres." Your examples are much more graceful than mine, and the way the handle attaches at the top in your examples makes more sense, too. The awkwardness of mine is growing on me, though. Maybe by the end of the weekend I'll love it. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 08-14-2009 02:13 PM
Polly, it sounds like the handle did become detached at the top and was not too skillfully reattached - if the bottom were off, most likely it would have torn the silver (which is thinner there than at the rim) and would show a scar inside. Excess silver solder was frequently not cleared from the bottom since that took time and no one was supposed to be looking there anyway! IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-14-2009 03:58 PM
What a great find. Congratulations. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 08-14-2009 06:27 PM
Polly, of course you should love your jug. I wouldn't have been so rude about it if you hadn't expressed some doubts yourself. I am now seeing it as a development of the example I scanned from one of my reference books, one that has grown up and acquired curves: more Marilyn Monroe than Audrey Hepburn. IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 08-14-2009 06:43 PM
Polly, when antiqueing always remember that the item, such as this creamer, have considerable age on them. I have always said that when we all get to that age we will all be in far worse condition. It just says the item was well used. Nice looking creamer of the period. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 08-14-2009 10:50 PM
Thanks for the kind words, folks! I didn't mean to stomp all over the poor little jug, I just wanted to figure out its story. What puzzled me was the contrast between the careful craftsmanship on most of it and the careless soldering of the handle and the bottom. Well, that and the, um, unfamiliar lines and proportions. I certainly don't fault it for its dings and blemishes--I have far too many of those myself. IP: Logged |
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ellabee Posts: 306 |
posted 08-22-2009 01:45 PM
swarter: Excess silver solder was frequently not cleared from the bottom since that took time and no one was supposed to be looking there anyway! That would make sense for a sugar or waste bowl, but a creamer is going to be picked up and upended, so the bottom would routinely be in plain view of the person to the server's side... IP: Logged |
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