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 American Silver before sterling
 American box given to Allen Sweet
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| Author | Topic: American box given to Allen Sweet |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 08-28-2009 07:28 PM
  
    Here are the images of a lovely box, typical Upper New York State, ca. 1850, the inscription on top of the lid reads "Allen Sweet", the backside is engraved with a railway. Before posting here, I wrote to moderator WEV, whose research continuously amazes everybody who reads the Forum entries and learned that Allen Sweet was the co-inventor of the first functional parabolic lantern for trains - which allowed for night running of freight-trains such clearing daytime for passenger trains. Allen Sweet was a master train mechanic on the Auburn &Syracuse Line, chartered in 1834. Inside the lid is a list of people - a group declared as either "Outsiders" "Outsiters" or "Outriders", while the term outsiders would have to do with the underground railway, outriders would be protection personel of the railway, riding with the train. Are there any ideas out there to this, any contribution would be very much appreciated. I want to also say that this research is simply done for fun and not for commercial purposes, but maybe - if something pans out WEV and I will write about this research effort. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-28-2009 07:42 PM
Please list the names. Most of them are legible in the image but it would be best for me if someone with better view read them. Thank you! IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 08-28-2009 07:50 PM
A lovely piece and another example of DB's sharp eye. The names I have traced so far are all related to the Auburn/Syracuse connection: The remaining names are: IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-28-2009 10:47 PM
Judging by the 1850 and 1860 U S Federal Census for Syracuse, New York, one of these gentlemen may be Riley S Eaton who was a clerk and a bookkeeper in the census's. In the 1860 census Riley appears to be in the same boarding house as William Winton who is listed as a salt manufacturer at that time. [This message has been edited by bascall (edited 08-29-2009).] IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 08-29-2009 06:39 AM
Thanks so much bascall - I still think that G.S. Backus was an engineer - I found an elevation done by him for the Weigh Lock House in Troy - somehow he would fit better in this group than the Baptist preacher. They must have all been part of a club or group - but why are they called "Outsiders" - "Outsiters"? IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 08-29-2009 11:30 AM
From the Syracuse Daily Courier of June 9, 1857 The VOORHEES HOUSE -- This large and magnificant Hotel is now open to the public and in readiness to recieve guests. It is beyond doubt one of the largest houses of public entertainment west of New York. . . And I wonder if the D. Becker is the Syracuse jeweler? His shop was at 22 Salina Street-- just a block down from the Voorhees House. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-29-2009 12:09 PM
There's also a Daniel Becker who was a seventeen year old apprentice gas fitter in the 1860 U S Federal Census for Syracuse, New York and an engine builder in the 1870 Census in the same city. He may be too young for this group, but he is in the correct field. Allen S Sweet appears in the 1860 U S Federal Census for Detroit, Michigan, but all of his children including a one year old were born in New York, so he must not have been there to long which relates to when these names may have had a reason to be grouped together. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 08-29-2009 12:51 PM
In the history of the Germans in Syracuse, two brothers Daniel and Philip Becker are mentioned - they were part of an American Band - the "Samsel's Band", they also played military music for the Lafayette Loge. Let's hope that except for his musical talent, Daniel was also handy as a silversmith, but as WEV points out Chedell is probably the most likely as maker of the box. All the books I have looked through there are only spoons by him. But maybe he rose to the ?? occasion. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-29-2009 02:32 PM
Just an additional thought, it appears the order of the gentlemen on this list is by age. And on the maker of the box, the one for the light that is, Allen Sweet was one of the master machinists (mechanics) who did the fitting of a sheet metal box with a cast parabolic reflector. This may have been done by the elder Allen Sweet who was born in Rhode Island in about Allen S Sweet Jr does have locomotive patents but nothing to do with lights, I'll be happy to accept any corrections or hints for new directions on these points. [This message has been edited by bascall (edited 08-29-2009).] IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 08-29-2009 05:06 PM
What size is the box? Any ideas on function? IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 08-29-2009 06:47 PM
From the perspective of someone who's been here in the Fingerlakes for well over a decade: I've never seen anything but spoons by Chedell, and wouldn't be surprised if most if not all of those even were just retailed. I'd be surprised if that box were made by him, although he may have obtained it through his wholesale connections and possibly engraved it (I've never seen reference to him as a quality engraver, but of course that was more common than smithing in this region). IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 08-29-2009 07:26 PM
It is a table snuffbox, 3 1/2 " x 2 1/2 " - when looking at it, I thought Albert Coles, Upper New York State - but only the Upper New York State connection is right so far - the box is unmarked. Many thanks for all responses. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 08-29-2009 07:29 PM
I wonder if somebody would have info re the outsider idea - I read that Syracuse was a hotbed for the Underground Railroad and that many people - black and white - were on the side of the abolitionist cause and helping slaves escape. Except for the obvious railroad connection, this might give the box an additional "railroad connection" but maybe I get carried away here a bit...... IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 08-29-2009 08:26 PM
quote: I suspect you are right; bought in goods with local engraving, which is pretty pedestrian. It does show that the box is from the 1850s, rather than earlier, as the locomotive shown is a 4-4-0 wheel set, rather than the original Auburn and Syracuse 2-4-0's built by Rogers, Ketchum and Grosvenor in 1839 and the Owasco built by Dennis, Thomas & Wood of Auburn in 1840, which ran until the line was merged into the Rochester & Syracuse in 1850. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-29-2009 09:35 PM
Is there anything to indicate that Daniel Becker's father Albert Becker who was originally from Halfmoon, New York would have been capable doing the work on this box? The Jeweler's Circular, November 15, 1893 (Google Books) has father and son working together from 1840 until the father's death when Daniel's brother James took his father place in the business. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-29-2009 09:35 PM
Don't see a headlight on the locomotive. Maybe it's stylized or just the available artwork for the engraver. [This message has been edited by bascall (edited 08-29-2009).] IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 08-30-2009 02:34 PM
bascall, thanks for the additional info, does the JC of Nov.15, 1893 mention the firm's name or as what the firm was listed, silversmiths or jeweler? Good engraving is never hard to find, since all the book- and newspaper illustrations were engraved on copperplates - so whoever could do this work, could of course engrave a silver box. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-30-2009 03:04 PM
I'm afraid it doesn't. Albert is listed as a silversmith in the 1850 U S Federal Census for Syracuse, New York while Daniel is listed as a jeweler in the same census. IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 08-30-2009 07:11 PM
I've been wondering about the attempt (so it looks to me) to scratch out the names. Was it really malicious intent or just an inept try at scraping off a lifetime of snuff residue? I've added another version with the color tweaked to bring up the strokes better IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-30-2009 07:44 PM
It looks like a half hearted attempt to obliterate the names. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 08-30-2009 09:02 PM
I have often found unmarked items with scratches deeper than one would wish - maybe the "testing" layman wanted to see if there is silver underneath - I don't think that it was an attempt to erase these names.There is a Becker &Lathrop, jewelers in Syracuse and also Albert Becker Sr. & Jr. jewelers, both mentioned in the directory. Thanks Wev for posting a better picture of the names - it is of course a question of initials, there is - as we have seen a J.S. Backus and a G.S. Backus - the G.S. was a railroad man and designed a railroad in Peru, which brought him a measure of fame. Then there are two different Woodruffs, one a merchant, the other in the livery business - also connected to the railroad, since in the early days freight cars were pulled by horses.The only guy we know nothing about is O. Burrows. But so far an amazing amount of facts came to light. Thank you all so very much. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-30-2009 09:18 PM
According to the 1850 U S Federal Census for Syracuse, New York, Paul C Woodruff was about seventeen years old in 1850 if it makes any difference. Also, there's an Orastus H Burrows who was a machinist and born in Chenango County, New York around 1818. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 08-30-2009 09:21 PM
I imagine it was just an attempt - "inept" as wev says - to clean it off so it could be read. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 08-30-2009 09:29 PM
There is a famous abolitionist story happening in Syracuse Oct. 1, 1851 the "Jerry Rescue" Jason C. Woodruff took part in it - so this is the first proof for the "outsider" theory ( first brought up by Wev) and abolitionist activities of at least one member of this group. When reading the history of Germans in Syracuse, one is amazed how many clubs, societies, etc. were formed - but really pre TV and computer if people wanted a good time they had to come together......in person. IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 08-30-2009 10:10 PM
"The decade from 1850 to the breaking out of the Civil war, while characterized by rapid growth in Syracuse and large general public improvement, with corresponding increase in all kinds of business industries, was not marked by any very remarkable event, if we except the Jerry Rescue, as it is known, which took place in October, 1851. A public meeting was held in Market Hall, as one of the details of the active Abolition movement, at which a series of resolutions was adopted expressive of extreme Abolition sentiment, denouncing the fugitive slave law, and declaring that no fugitive slave should ever be returned to bondage from Syracuse. There never was. In the winter of 1849-50 an intelligent slave arrived in the city from Mississippi, on his way to the promised land in Canada. Feeling safe in Syracuse, he decided to remain and found employment in the cabinet shop of Charles F. Williston. He possessed mechanical ability and soon opened a shop of his own; but the slave hunter was on his track, and on the 1st of October, 1851, Jerry, as he was known, was taken into custody by a Southern officer, and lodged in the building then standing on the site of what is now known as the Jerry Rescue block. Sylvester House was the police justice, and had his office in that building. Henry W. Allen was United States marshall and James R. Lawrence was attorney for Northern New York. William H. Sabine was United States commissioner, with his office in the Townsend block. Before him Jerry was taken by his captor. The room was crowded and soon Jerry, watching his opportunity, made a break for freedom, running eastward, but he was quickly pursued, captured near the railroad tunnel and lodged in the police office. By this time indignation was high and plans were made for the slave's rescue, Democrats as well as Whigs joining in the work. The evening of October 1 was a beautiful one and the time was ripe for operations. A rescue party gathered, surrounded by a curious crowd, and upon walls and doors fell the blows of stones, axes and timbers until the amazed officials inside began to think more of their own safety than of the security of their captive. One of them jumped from a window on the north side of the building and broke his arm with the fall. Finally the frightened official who had immediate charge of Jerry, pushed him out into the arms of the rescuers, exclaiming, it is said: "Get out of here, you ___ nigger, if you are making all this muss." Jerry was hurried to a place of concealment which was so well chosen that he remained in it safely for about ten days, although it was near the center of the city. At the end of that time he was placed in the night in a wagon supplied by Jason C. Woodruff (a Democrat), and was driven by Jason C. Hoyt over the first stage of the flying trip to Canada, where the hero found a haven of safety. This act was a bold defiance of law and its results were heralded throughout the North; the anniversary was celebrated annually for several years in Syracuse. Of the rescuing party eighteen were indicted; but not one was ever convicted." Onondaga Centennial "1852 - Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel, Uncle Tom's Cabin is published. Bad harvests in Germany cause food prices to soar. 115,000 Germans emigrate to the United States this year. Syracuse is an attractive destination due to its advantageous location on the Erie Canal and its big salt works [remember Mr. Winton, the salt man and mayor?] offering many jobs, especially for carpenters and barrelmakers. Former stagecoach driver and self-made man, Jason C. Woodruff, is elected mayor of the city of Syracuse." Unfortunately, I see no "recent" connection between the two Woodruffs. Now, if we are to send a bit of pipe smoke skyward, it may be worth considering the near riotous "Democratic" conventions of the 1850s held in Syracuse, that pitted the Free Soil factions of Hards and Softs against the Hunkers and Barnburners for control of the party in the face of the Whig machine and each with hired crews of "persuaders". To say nothing of the radical Free Democrats demanding absolute abolition as the core plank of the party. Our politics are so milk toast by comparison. Or they may just have been a group of young up-and-comers that liked to go camping together. . . so many tasty threads to follow -- where's my Dunhill? [This message has been edited by wev (edited 08-30-2009).] IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 08-30-2009 11:23 PM
Was the word “outsider” used in the 1850s in Syracuse to denote abolitionists? A review of newsprint from that area and time for the word outsider may reveal evidence of interest. Would it have been natural to use this word rather than abolitionist if the user wanted to use a code word? IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-30-2009 11:25 PM
As it relates to the "Jerry Rescue," I could see these gentlemen referring to themselves and being referred to by others as outsiders. After all as rescuers, they were breaking the law, so why not shift the blame to outsiders. It happens all the time. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-31-2009 06:25 PM
Beverly Chase who appears in the 1850 U S Federal Census for Syracuse, New York and in the 1850-51 Syracuse directory may be an engraver who could have done the work on this snuff box. Although Beverly is specifically noted for portraits and copper, wood and steel engraving; he is the only engraver listed in Onondaga County at this time. The following link has some interesting Jerry Rescue related images and shows a drawing by Beverly Chase: Where first hearing in Jerry case took place; Building upon south side of Clinton Square at corner of Water and Clinton ... (1843) IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 09-01-2009 08:57 AM
thanks wev and bascall - the only "problem" I now have is with the Beckers - are they in the census of 1850 or 1860? To clarify as wev tells me the term "outriders" was used for the underground railroad. But when googling "outsider" one gets a lot of abolitionist stories too......in any case this might really only be a romantic speculation. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 09-01-2009 09:07 AM
The Albert and Daniel Becker who were in the jewelry trade are both in the 1850 and 1860 and later U S Federal Census's for Syrarcuse, New York. Albert is in the census's until at least 1880. In 1860 he is listed as a gentleman, in 1870 a jeweler and in 1880 a gentleman. The younger Daniel Becker who was a gas fitter and locomotive builder was in a different family. He was a first generation born American. As for outsider as it concerns these gentlemen on the snuff box, I have nothing to put my finger on for certain. Another common use of the term which may not seem as significant now was non church members. [This message has been edited by bascall (edited 09-01-2009).] IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 09-01-2009 06:02 PM
Might be worth also checking the 1845, '55, and '65 New York State censuses. Those often have somewhat different information recorded than the federal censuses. Many people other than those listed as engravers might be quality engravers. The best in Tompkins County around that time, for example, was widely acknowledged to be one of the local jewelers. There also were engravers who worked on firearms. The inscription looks to me to be clearly G S Backus rather than J S. I would think it far more likely that this is a railroad-related inscription than an underground railroad.... Sorry to be sporadic and short, it's the beginning of the new semester and things are pretty crazy! IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 09-01-2009 08:37 PM
There are no gunsmiths listed in Onondaga County in the 1850-51 New York State Mercantile Union Business Directory, New York S French, L C & H L Pratt, & J B Henshaw 1855, but that doesn't say anything for nearby Counties. My convenient access to state census's is extremely limited. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 09-02-2009 08:38 AM
Agreed all these people have either worked for the railroad or made the building possible (politicians) except for bookkeeper R.S. Eaton. Given the political climate in Syracuse at the time - there were public fundraisers for the underground railroad held in council's chambers, songs were composed for the fundraising parties like "The Underground Railroad Quickstep" and Reverend Jermain Loguen (himself a fugitive slave) handed out business cards, where he declared himself as "Underground Railroad Agent" - abolition and protest against the fugitive law was the mainstream attitude in Syracuse. But this aside, the donors of this box gave this present to Allen Sweet as a token of their appreciation,we will probably never know why they called themselves outsiders. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 09-06-2009 11:08 AM
Hi bascall, in an earlier posting you mentioned that Allan Sweet has a few railroad patents to his name - could you give the source for this info and maybe which patents you found? I contacted Judy Redfield who did a lot of research work into (silver) patents and she told me that patents pre 1836 are very hard to research since the patent office burned down at this time and all the patent grants perished at that time. Later on there was an appeal to submit old patents to establish a new database - but this was hit and (mostly) miss. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 09-06-2009 11:35 AM
Just go to google and at the top of the home page select "more." From that pull down, select "even more."Then scroll down. Patents are in the lefthand column. A name search alone will bring him up. If that won't work for you, let me know, and I'll see what I can do. [This message has been edited by bascall (edited 09-06-2009).] IP: Logged |
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