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tline3open  Hallmark puzzle

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Author Topic:   Hallmark puzzle
park1226

Posts: 102
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 10-23-2009 04:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for park1226     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1915]

Good afternoon,
I have been a member since 2005. My interests have always been in American sterling and silver plate.

I recently have started to try to learn more about British Hallmarks. I recently acquired the standard "Threaded" fork shown. It has the name of the American silver smiths Cooper & Fisher who were active in Amity, NY in the mid 19th century. It also has what I believe are three English hallmarks i.e. the Queen Victoria duty mark, a lion for sterling, and a bold F that I think indicates that it was imported into Great Britain from a foreign manufacturer.

Am I correct is assuming that since there is no City or date mark that this is a sterling fork made by Cooper & Fisher and exported to Great Britain?

Thanks for your help.

[img]http://www.smpub.com/ubb/images/09/26-1915-forkhm2.jpg] [/URL]

[img]http://www.smpub.com/ubb/images/09/26-1915-wholefork.jpg] [/URL]

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agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 10-23-2009 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These look to me like "pseudo" marks. The F on imported silver should accompany a full set of English marks, not just a couple, and the lion passant doesn't look like that of any English assay office.

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 4121
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 10-23-2009 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cooper & Fisher were the retailers; the pseudo marks are typical of New York state wholesale manufacturers.

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park1226

Posts: 102
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 10-23-2009 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for park1226     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you both for your reply. It appears that the opposite of my assumption is true i.e. the fork was imported by Cooper & Fisher. There is a limited amount information available re. their operations. My Turner ref. book indicates they were silver smiths and there are a limited number of refs. to them supplying coin silver so I assumed they might also have produced silver. It appears that they also imported and marketed other types of flatware. So do the pseudo trademarks also indicate that the item is not coin or sterling? The lion has the curled tail but is not as crisp as other hallmarks on other London pieces I own. Thanks for your comments.

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agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 10-23-2009 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not imported from England, if that is what you mean. When reading English marks you need to look at the outline of the punch as well as the detail within it.

The pseudo mark will have been applied by the American maker as an indication that the item was indeed silver, whether coin or sterling I as a Brit wouldn't know.

[This message has been edited by agphile (edited 10-23-2009).]

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doc

Posts: 728
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 10-23-2009 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pseudo hallmarks were frequently by Northeastern silver makers in the midddle decades of the 1800s on coin silver. The explanation I have heard previously is that since there were very few large scale silver producers during that time, pseudo hallmarks were used within the industry to allow retailers to identify the maker.

According to John McGrew's publication, "Manufacturers' Marks on American Coin Silver", the pseudo mark on your piece is attributed to an unidentified maker in Northern New Jersey.

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park1226

Posts: 102
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 10-24-2009 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for park1226     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the replies. I was able to dig deeper and found a 2005 thread on the forum devoted to Francis Cooper.
quote:
"Richard Fisher, Cooper's partner from 1854 to 1862, was a jeweler by profession and brought at least thirty thousand dollars to the partnership.(27) In 1860 the firm produced about thirty thousand dollars worth of secular and ecclesiastical silver and employed an average of fifteen workers, making them the eighth largest silver manufacturer in New York City.(28) However, when Fisher withdrew his investment in 1862, Cooper underwent a series of financial misfortunes from which he never recovered. He made his last known piece of communion silver about 1875."
A hallmark shown on the thread is similar to that of the fork which prompted this post except that a G is substituted for an F. It appears that based on Docs reply that Cooper & Fisher, even though they were a fairly large firm, subcontracted forks from the " unknown New Jersey silversmith and put their retail mark on them. Given that their forte was producing ecclesiastical silver I suppose this makes sense. Once again the forum has proven to be a wealth of information.

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