Posts: 1970
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posted 03-19-2012 12:45 PM            

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I bought a little gilt spoon yesterday that had an old label on it: "Wavy-end rat-tail c. 1700."

The spoon is 4 1/2 inches long. It has no marks--if it ever did, they're worn away. It has an old pricked monogram on the back of the handle and a newer monogram on the front. There's gilding flaking and bubbling off the spoon. My guess is that someone in the late 19th c. had a family heirloom gilded and gave it to the person with the newer initials.

My questions are:

-When was this spoon probably made?
-What country was it probably made in?
-Am I right that the gilding is later?
-Should I polish it? Should I worry about disturbing the gilding?

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posted 03-19-2012 12:46 PM            

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Closeups of the monograms:

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posted 03-19-2012 01:51 PM            

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I am not an expert but do have over 50 years experience for whatever that is worth.

Now on with what I think. First off is the Rattail. There are entended rattails, short rattails and in between. It appears to be a rattail with a whole lot of wear to the rattail. Next is the Dognose and yes it is a dognose spoon. Then comes the guilding. It is my experience that guilding does not flake but rather wears off. This might or might not be a later plating as plating did not exist until after 1800. There are a few who think a metal overlay was done early on but nothing has been proven as far as I know. Now we come to the spriging. This was a decoration done early on and mostly European. As most, but not all, smiths of this time period were trained in Europe it is quite possible for this type of decoration to have been done in America. When I say Europe I include England. Lastly remember that definitive answers can only be given with the item actually in hand and most museum staff are very helpful with identification. Very nice spoon and I will wait to hear what overs think.

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posted 03-19-2012 01:57 PM            

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Thanks, Argentum. I really should have posted this in General Silver, shouldn't I? Sorry!

I have seen gold plating bubbling/flaking off in just this way before, on a silver comb that was made in the 1860s and I believe was plated in the 1890s. So I think this might be something that happens when people plate an object after it's been used for a while? I might be indulging in a little circular reasoning here.

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posted 03-19-2012 02:00 PM            

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PS: I think I may be misusing the terms "gilding" and "plating"--I'm not really clear on the distinction.

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posted 03-19-2012 03:07 PM            

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In the first place, it looks like the tip of the handle is bent backwards a bit - that plus the pounced (pricked) initials indicate in my experience that this spoon is Continental in origin, (pouncing was used early on in England, but by this time it was rare). We are most used to judging spoons of this type by English and American standards, but on the Continent there was a greater variety of styles and techniques in use outside of the major centers, so it is hard for me to say anything definitive in terms of time and place of origin, of how long the rattail might have been.

Secondly, gold finishes have been applied in several ways three of these are mercury gilding (usually only the bowl), hammering of gold leaf (like the Sheffield process), or (later) electroplating. Mercury gilding generally is very thin, more like electroplating, where hammered leaf is thicker. Most probably the bubbling and peeling implies thicker plating and not gilding - I have no guess as to when it might have been applied.

Perhaps one of our European contributors can add something definitive.

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 03-19-2012).]

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posted 03-19-2012 03:12 PM            

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Thank you, Stuart. Possible to move this thread to a more appropriate forum?

And any idea when it might have been made? Is the 1700 date at all plausible? If so, that would make it the oldest piece of silver in my little collection and very exciting to me.

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posted 03-19-2012 03:30 PM            

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Let's wait until we see if anyone disagrees before deciding if or where to move it.

As for dating, it could well be that old, but not knowing where it was made, I would only guess sometime in the first half of the 18th Century, because some styles persisted longer is some parts of the Continent.

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