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Another pastoral milled band

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Author	Topic: Another pastoral milled band
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 12-26-2012 01:39 PM Secular Santa brought me a teapot: It's marked I.W. Forbes plus a bunch of charming pseudo hallmarks, for John Wolfe Forbes of New-York: From the 1820s, right? IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 12-26-2012 01:41 PM It has an acorn finial: And a dog's head spout: IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 12-26-2012 01:45 PM And it has a wonderful milled band of American pastoral scenes: Here's the handle: Handle again: Back to the teapot body: This band, around the top and the foot, is very similar to another band in the Glossary of Milled Bands on another IW Forbes item, but the one on my teapot is a little simpler and perhaps smaller: IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 12-26-2012 01:52 PM The Glossary of Milled Bands shows a similar pastoral band on a W.B. Heyer teapot from this thread: Varieties of decorative silver banding My band is different from the Heyer one, but the two share lots of similar elements: the fort on a hill, a shepherd with classical posture but contemporary (Federal era) clothing, boxy Federal houses. (You can't see it very well from my photos, but my shepherd is wearing knee-breeches and suspenders!) IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 12-26-2012 01:59 PM Mine also has a ploughman; three ships, one hoisting its sails, with a man onshore carrying away its cargo of boxes, barrels, and something rodlike over his shoulder; a flock of doglike sheep being watched over by sheeplike dogs; and a rising sun. If someone is keeping up the Glossary, please name and add these! Glossary of Milled Bands IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 12-28-2012 12:59 PM Or is it a coffee pot? It's quite big (11 inches tall) and has no filter at the point where the spout joins the body. IP: Logged
ahwt Posts: 2334 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 12-31-2012 03:45 PM Forbes was a partner with Colin Van Gelder Forbes in 1819 so your beautiful pot probably was made sometime in the 1820’s. WEV’s web site has quite a few alternate marks shown for John Forbes, but your mark has a unique beaver. That would be a good one to add to his listing. These marks would be considered Manufacturers’ marks and the variation within these marks may indicate that part of the mark was used to identify the actual smith who created the work. The beaver mark shows up more in Canadian silver – could the smith have been an immigrant from Canada? It is fun to speculate. I think of the shepherd over looking over his flock as more of an English theme as I would a coast line filled with sailing ships. It is interesting to combine the two themes together on the same band. All the teapots I have seen have a strainer, but I really do not know if that feature was essential. It certainly has the look of a teapot (coffee pots usually are tall and thin) and I think that is what I would use it for. I don’t think the spout animal is a dog as the fur on its neck has a great mythical feathered look. Great find by a secular Santa. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 01-01-2013 11:44 AM Thank you very much, awht. In the scene with the fishers, the sun is rising over the ocean, so it must be facing east, which is consistent with the American east coast. Of course, England also has an east coast. And you could argue that that sun is setting, not rising. So I guess that's not much of an argument, is it? Re coffee vs. teapot, in this thread: one pot, two Lowneses swarter suggests that during this period, coffee and teapots were the same shape, just different sizes, and the presence or absence of a strainer might be the distinguishing factor. Perhaps he'll weigh in here if he's reading this? WEV, you're welcome to use the mark photo if you'd like it. Let me know if you'd like me to take another one in different light or anything. How many silversmiths did I.W. Forbes' shop employ, does anyone know? IP: Logged
ahwt Posts: 2334 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 01-02-2013 12:44 AM Deborah Dependahl Waters book on Elegant Plate – Three Centuries of Precious Metals in New York City has several of John W. Forbes pieces and several of his relative’s works. I assume all of the pieces in this two volume set are in the City of New York Museum and they might have additional information on John Forbes. Ms. Waters’s book is one of the most enjoyable books I have on silver. When I mentioned the possible English theme to the mill work I did not mean that the pot was meant for the English market. This pot is just what New Yorkers wanted in the 1820s. I am reading the book 1775: A Good Year for a Revolution now and maybe I am just looking for clues for how long the loyalist’s influence lasted in New York. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 04-16-2013 03:39 PM Thank you, awht, for recommending the Waters book. I found a copy and it is great! I've been meaning to post a photo of my teapot, now home from the teapot doctor, standing straight and proud and no longer sporting that bad-polish matte finish. IP: Logged

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