posted 07-14-2008 04:19 PM            

An internet search brings up a watch movement that sold on eBay in May, marked on movement and dial I.P. Libbey of Washington DC. A dust strap going around the movement bears another name and date '69/or 1869. I don't know that Hettie Elster (original owner of this spoon) was ever in the DC area nor were there relatives there that I know. Did I.P.Libbey also work in table silver and in the West? I would appreciated any info at all re I.P. Libbey, silversmith (and maybe associated with watches?), his location/s and dates. Thank you!

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This is from here (Maker? Sterling 'Youth Set' ca 1878)
... You asked my interest in silver. I am the family historian and with the recent death of my mother, am now the custodian of *everything.* Realized if I didn't write things down and label them and get the family history into some kind of form (as opposed to website) that all would be lost to future generations.

First step is to inform my children what is 'family' and should be kept, along with the stories behind the items. I have never paid any attention to silver, but to use it, and found I knew nothing about the few pieces that are monogrammed and which surely should stay in the family.

I noticed, searching online, that a couple of the maker marks are not well known (or perhaps unimportant?) so I thought silver people might have some interest in seeing them and helping me out with some background.

I am enjoying learning. Hope this tiny collection is of some interest to others who are more knowledgeable.

Thanks,
Bonnie

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posted 07-14-2008 10:46 PM            

While you were doing some research [where?] I have found out some things on my own re Libbey using the censuses.
Since at the time I started, you had mentioned Wash DC, in 1870s I had to start there. No luck.
1890- there is an Israel P. Libbey in the 1890 City Directory for Washington DC. He’s located at (1) 310 9th Northwest and (2) 1465 Boundary Northwest. Occupation: Jeweler. The name is rare and this is probably he. Without knowing his date and place of birth I am not able to do much more re censuses.

1920- I am searching on “Israel P. Libbey” and making up a date of birth ca 1840...aha!... living in Ashburnham, Worcester, Massachusetts in Jan 1920 is an 85 yr old Israel P. Libbey who was born in New Hampshire, his parents born in Maine. He’s still the household head, and owns a home mortgage-free [guess he didn't do *too* badly]. Occupation is disappointing, but after all he’s 85: ‘none.’ I was hoping for ‘retired jeweler’ -or some such- to know I am on right track. With him is his 72 yr old wife Sarah J. who was born in Vermont as were her parents. The only other person in household is Israel’s brother-in-law, True A. Towne [writing is difficult- my best guess] age 83, born VT, parents b VT. Israel is able to read and write. So we learn Israel’s wife’s maiden name is probably Towne. Will try back- tracking from 1920 as an 85 yr old probably didn’t just move:

1910 - I find that he *is* in the 1910 census in Ashburton MA! Due to handwriting legibility, he was indexed as “Jorach P. Tribbey”, but it is clearly [well not so clearly :-)] Israel P. Libbey. He is living on Cushing Hill Road in Ashburton, age 75, we learn Sarah [here spelled Sara] was his second wife and they have been married either 37 or 39 years. There is a discrepancy with wife Sara J’s birthplace -- here said to be NH, not VT, and this gives her parents as from Maine.. The clincher though is that Israel P. Libbey’s occupation is given as : "clock and watch repairing!" We have the right guy! I also see that Sara J. , Israel’s second wife had 3 children, only one then alive. As this is her second marriage too, it is at this point unclear whether Israel fathered any children.

1900- found Israel P. Libbey, birth date given as June 1835, age 64, married 40 yrs, born NH, parents born ME. Here he is living in/or passing through?/ Waltham, Middlesex Co, Mass. It is the 12 of June and he’s staying in a boarding house or hotel on Adams St. with many other boarders and no apparent family members. He gives his occupation as ‘Tool Maker.’

1890- the US census was destroyed.

1884 Feb 20 - an Israel P. Libbey purchases land, 164+acres, in Faribault Co., Minnesota, from the land office in Worthington!

1880- Israel P. Libbey is in Kansas City, Jackson Co, Missouri! It’s the 9th of June and he’s boarding, clearly in a hotel on W. 12th St. He’s age 46, married and gives occupation at Jeweler. The info on his place of birth and that of his parents is consistent with all the census info above.

1870 - had hoped to find Libbey in Wash. DC. Very disappointing. Can’t find him ANYwhere. He either missed the census taker, was on the road, or his name was mangled by the indexer. I will take WEV’s source for his being in Wash. DC. [He seems to have traveled around a bit! ]

1860 Israel P. Libby/sic is found in Portsmouth, New Hampshire on the 5th of June. Again, he is boarding. He’s a young man of 26 and lists occupation as Watch Maker. He owns no real estate and has personal property valued at $300, actually not bad for a young man in 1860. Born in NH. Apparently he has his wife with him: Sarah C. Libby age 27 --this would be the earlier wife, born Mass. -- seems he married two Sarahs.

I am a bit disappointed to have not come up with some reference to silver...or whether or not Libbey ever went West and did work out here. I was hoping for a clue as to why my GGGM Hettie Elster of Grass Valley CA should have a spoon made by I.P. Libbey. She was not a very traveled person, nor one to have luxury goods. I am puzzled by the simplicity of the spoon, too, for someone who is a watch maker/ jeweler --would have thought there would be some detail work. Odd? Yet it seems silver flatware was not Libbey’s main interest? At least he never appears to call himself a silversmith in a census. Did “jeweler” have more cachet?

posted 07-15-2008 04:11 PM            

I only consulted the censuses-- I was clear that the census was my source -- and did not go into the ancestry of the Libbeys because my sole interest was learning where Libbey was plying his trade and when, in the hopes of finding he traveled at one time to California where the owner of the spoon lived. As vast amounts of Libbey's life are undocumented (so far as I know) this is still a possibility. I reported what I found on the censuses because I thought if I went to the bother to look them up I might as well share in case it helped someone else.

So far as 'basic' genealogical data: wish there was One Source that could be wholly trusted. All of them are contaminated to some degree. Using LDS, for instance, IGI - there is a vast difference in whether the source is a microfilm of a primary source or data based on a member submission. Ancestry.com does give access to a lot of primary records. But they also have 'trees' which are edited by contributors in 'wiki'-style. Even revered family genealogies have been shown to err. One day, hopefully, one will consult such a tree and be linked to the primary records substantiating each tidbit of information. That's a way off.

Back to silver: I had asked if any of the approximately six pieces of Libbey's work you have seen bore any resemblance to the Hettie Elster spoon--in terms of craftsmanship or any other criteria?

posted 07-19-2009 01:44 PM            

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Originally posted by wev:
Israel Putnam Libbey was a watchmaker and retail jeweler. He was working in ...Washington DC in the 1870s....

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Israel P Libby is in the 1864 and 1865 U.S. IRS Tax Assessment Lists for the District of Columbia.