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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Silverplate Forum
 Biscuit barrel
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| Author | Topic: Biscuit barrel |
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mgnewman Posts: 4 |
posted 02-01-2005 09:41 PM
  
I hope someone can help me with this conundrum. I have found a biscuit barrel with very poorly-preserved marks. The makers mark of WH in a oval shield is readable, but not a lot else. there is a peaked shield with what looks like the shape of an ampersand in it, then what seems to be the date letter, then what looks to be a Gothic B, then a Gothic V (maybe a Dublin harp?), then a weird shaped mark that looks like a Chester shield with the three sheaves, but on its side. It really looks more like a grouping of 3 initials on its side. The only really good identifying mark is a stamp of 8 arrows, crossed four by four. Any ideas? I am stumped! Mark Newman IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 02-01-2005 10:07 PM
This sounds like silver plate by William Hutton & Sons of Sheffield & London. IP: Logged |
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mgnewman Posts: 4 |
posted 02-02-2005 07:07 AM
Is the crossed arrows a sheffield mark? I saw that when I searched for crossed arrows marks on the Forum. Any idea of how to date this? Once again, thanks for your help! Mark Newman IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 02-02-2005 01:51 PM
Ordinarily, there is no way to date silverplate from the marks. Only the dates of operation of the firm provide a time frame. If ctalogs exist, the appearance of a style or pattern in the catalog of a particular year can help narrow it down. The marks as you describwe them should be WH/&/S/B/P, followed by the sideways shield containing either MP/A, MP/B, or MP/C. WH&S stand for William Hutton & Sons and BP for Britannia Plate. I do not know what the last mark signifies. As this thread deals with electroplate rather than Old Sheffield Plate, it will be transferred to the Silverplate Forum IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 02-03-2005 12:00 AM
What about patent dates on U.S. pieces? Do they give the year the piece was made or the year the patent was taken out. How long is the patent good for? I know it is usually 50 years for printed matter. Thanks, IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 02-03-2005 12:51 AM
Usually on US pieces a patent date refers to some sort of mechanical or technological innovation. It does not cover the design, at least that is how I understand it. The design is covered for as long as it is made and then some years after. Which may explain why companies periodically reissue old designs. Like the Oneida baby cups which seem to come around on a 30 year schedule. I hope I am not too wrong about this. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 02-03-2005 01:53 AM
The distinction between Design and Utility Patents is explained at the web site below. http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/1500_1502_01.htm Design patents protect the way an article looks and a design patent provides this protection for 14 years from the date the patent is issued. A utility patent protects the way an invention works or is used and lasts for 20 years from the date the patent application was filed. The design patent protects the ornamental appearance while a utility patent protects the way an article functions. For example, a design patent on a tire tread does not in itself indicate that the tread functions better than others, just that it has provides ornamentation that is new and original. If the tread design has a function that is new and un-obvious it may also quality for a utility patent. uspto.gov This site provides a good description of patents, trademarks and copyrights. IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 02-05-2005 01:45 AM
Thanks. I doubt anyone could get a utility patent on something as ancient as tableware, so I gather silver patents would be for design, suggesting that a piece patented in 1907 would be no older than 1921? Tom IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 02-05-2005 11:55 PM
Actually silver companies produce patterns for very long periods after the patent date. I am not aware of instances of competitors duplicating patterns after 14 years, but I could be wrong. Gorham has been making Chantilly since 1895 without duplicates. This area is one that does need clarification. The shield with three sheaves of wheat sometimes appears on items made to be retailed by Marshall Field & Co in Chicago. That crest appears on china and silver. Just thought I would muddy the waters some more. IP: Logged |
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