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 Silverplate Forum
 WBC?
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| Author | Topic: WBC? |
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nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 02-24-2005 12:08 AM
  
[01-2245 21-0832] (Note - see : WBC?) Can someone identify this mark on an apparent mid-nineteenth century double-swell fiddle pattern soup ladle? The ladle measures 31.5 cm length, 8.5 cm (round) bowl width, ~3 cm bowl depth, ~6.5 tr. oz. The lozenge shape of the mark would tend to imply French manufacture, but there are no other marks present. I have seen similar two-headed eagle marks in Tardy for Russian, Belgian and Netherlands silver, but none are the same, and most are indicated as 50+ years earlier than appropriate for this pattern. I suppose this mark might be for silverplate, but the piece seems very heavy for its construction, and none of the pits or moderate scratches appear to have penetrated through any plating. TIA for any assistance! IP: Logged |
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nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 03-09-2005 03:45 PM
I note the edited question is still listed down in the "forgotten" pile, just shoving it back to the top for one last look. Thanks!  IP: Logged |
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nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 03-22-2005 12:26 AM
Okay, no luck so far, could the moderator perhaps move this inquiry to the continental silver board? The subtle irregularities in this piece have me believing that it is indeed hand-made silver, as opposed to punch press silverplate, but I could well be wrong, and am willing to be proven so, as I basically desire not which is most remunerative, but instead which is most supportive of the truth in the matter. To me, the double-headed eagle stamp harkens most likely of Russia. Any recognition? TIA!!! IP: Logged |
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sazikov2000 Posts: 254 |
posted 03-22-2005 07:47 AM
As far as I know this mark is not Russian. They do have some silversmiths who sign with Latin letters, but the hallmarking pattern is always Russian - in this case it is absolutely non-Russian. Sorry for no better answer. Sazikov2000 IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 03-22-2005 04:17 PM
The Austro-Hungarian Empire also used the double eagle as a heraldic symbol, but not to the best of my knowledge on silver. My guess is (and it is just a guess) that the piece is silver plate. Good luck, IP: Logged |
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nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 03-22-2005 07:20 PM
Thanks for the info so far, though not definitive as of yet. The piece still has me thinking solid silver, though the mark does have a silverplate look to it. Besides no surface breaks if it were indeed plated (including some heavy scratching in the bowl interior), the piece has some small assymetries more typical of hand-made pieces, such as some slight waves in the top surface of the flat finial, and shoulders that don't quite match (one projects out further and has a rounder profile), as well as showing some small residual file marks in the corners where the shoulders meet the stem. Were perhaps some early silverplate pieces hand made? IP: Logged |
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nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 03-25-2005 01:19 AM
Okay, no luck here, might I persuade the board moderator to move this thread to the silverplate board in a last gasp attempt to find attribution? Thanks!!! IP: Logged |
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nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 04-12-2005 09:42 PM
Well, in case anyone is interested, this piece indeed turned out to be silverplate, despite the shape irregularities that would imply a hand-made origin. There was one pit in the bowl, approx. one to two mm width, that appeared to be deep enough to have penetrated any plating, were such the case, but the floor of the pit was too rough to tell if this was so. And so I spent a while with a "local abrasive" (pencil eraser tip) to smooth it out. After a while, the difference between the silver plating and base metal bacame apparent. Would still like to know when and where it was made. IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 04-12-2005 11:29 PM
For what it's worth, my own experience of hand made articles that are silverplated is that they did not start off life with the intention of becoming plated. Instead they went into the vat at dates far distant from their creation. This is particularly the case with wonderfully hand repouseed copper. Down the road someone thinks how lovely this would be in silver. Pieces can drive you crazy. On this ladle, my guess would be that this is a pewterer's mark. Which sort of marks really do look a lot like silver marks. And which pieces are generally both rather heavy and hand made. My thoughts, IP: Logged |
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nihontochicken Posts: 289 |
posted 04-14-2005 01:18 PM
Thanks, Dale, for your response. You may well be right. The pit in this piece didn't appear to act the same as those I've experienced in old pieces of silver plate over "nickel silver". In those cases, the plating breaks seem to have a hard, black patina that is very resistant to normal polishing. In this case, the high points within the pit polished rather easily. Unfortunately, now the the area is smoothed out completely and polished, I don't have the experience to recognize pewter versus nickel-silver. IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 04-14-2005 10:04 PM
Maybe there is some kind and helpful soul here who knows about pewter marks. And would be willing to try and find this one. It should not be impossible. I hope! I can't tell the difference between pewter and nickle silver either. They really do look the same to me. IP: Logged |
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