posted 05-18-2006 10:56 PM            

Can anyone tell me anything about this pair of silverplate on copper chambersticks? There are no marks/stamps on either of them. They are very heavy, weighing around 1½ lb each. The bottoms do not polish like silver so wondering if the bottoms are pewter on copper. What’s left of the top does polish like silver. Found them in a back corner of one of my mother’s dressers. I suspect she forgot she had them and that she didn’t care for them originally because of where they were stored.

They stand 3" high, bases are 6½” squarish, and the candle holder-opening diameter is 1½”. Both have stands for snuffers but only 1 cone snuffer remains. Both have openings under the candle holders for wick trimmers - no wick trimmers. They are very worn showing more copper than silver, snuffer stands bent, and bottoms warped. Note the 3 screw/pins in the bases.

Here is an assortment of questions. Feel free to take a stab at any of them. Are the bases pewter and copper? Are they English or American? Do you think they were originally marked/stamped and now worn down or were never marked? Any guess estimate to a date range like late 1700s, early 1800s, mid 1880s, late 1800s, early 1900s?

TIA.

--- Susan

posted 05-19-2006 12:51 AM            

Missing snuffers are always a problem. Usually they show up being sold as 'measures'. Many dealers finding one think it is a measuring scoop of some kind.

posted 05-19-2006 06:57 PM            

Thank you for taking a stab!

>…late Sheffield plate, probably 1850's or so…<

I thought or more accurately hoping Sheffield but had no idea as to date. Thank you for confirming my impression of the bottom being pewter/copper.

>The border is hard to make out in the picture, but appears to be fairly traditional, the kind used since Georgian times.<

At end of message are more pics including close-up of border.

Outwest,

>Does it come out manually from a hole or something?<

Yes. Have included close-up pics of the snuffer, the snuffer stand, and snuffer on stand. The hook end on the snuffer that fits into the stand looks like an Allen wrench, around 3mm square. When in the stand, you can see the hook sticking through the stand.

>They were the original flashlight.<

One of my most cherished possessions is a 7½” tall, 3” diameter base with a chamber type handle and chain at the top, brass oil lamp. It was my grandmother’s “flashlight”. She carried it in the 1880s to church on Sunday evenings and ice skating at night. Whenever I look at it, I can see her all bundled up in the winter skating on the town ponds swinging this darling lamp. These items do bring the past to life!

Snuffer and Stand:

My grandmother’s 1880s “flashlight”:

Thank you both for the responses!

--- Susan

posted 05-19-2006 07:49 PM            

Your chambersticks are lovely.

With regard to Grandma's flashlight I believe it to be a Victorian Finger Lamp. I would look for any markings on the "wheel" that turns the wick for a possible maker if none appears anywhere else. I can't determine the size from the picture but if it is a miniature, there are books out there about Miniature oil/kerosene lamps.

To outwest.....the chambersticks are out there with/without snuffers. Do an internet search for it.

posted 05-20-2006 08:47 AM            

Thank you for the info on this brass lamp. As to the manufacturer, I haven’t ever been able to spot anything on the stem. The only visible markings are on the brass flue(?) that has:

PATd Dec 24 1867

I have taken it apart several times in the past and gone over it with a magnifying glass all to no avail. I have seen this lamp a couple of times in antique shops (CT & MA) but a good 2-3” taller and 1-2” wider. I doubt it was rare, but the sentimental value is irreplaceable.

Here are pics of the stem and pattern info. Maybe you/someone can make out something:

Thank you for your response.

--- Susan

posted 06-02-2006 01:36 AM            

>It could be the Manhattan Brass Company NYC.
It could also be a hurricane lantern.<

About a week ago, finally tracked down the manufacturer on the US Patent site. The chimmy/flue of this oil lamp had patent date Dec 24 1867. I plugged the date in on the patent site thinking this would be a breeze. Welllll, up popped over 250 patents for that date. I crawled through them to finally find it 200 and something. There it was. The patent was for improvements to the "lantern" by Henry Beebe of Hudson City, Hudson Co., NJ. Did up a webpage of the patent office sketch and specs.

The patent was by a Henry Beebe, but don't know if he was the actual manufacturer. As to being a hurricane lantern do not know; however, the patent does refer to it as a lantern rather than a lamp. The patent design shows a wire handle with a hook as opposed to the chain on mine. The 2 larger ones I saw in antique shops also had chains identical to this one.

Thank you for your reply.

--- Susan

posted 06-02-2006 11:37 AM            

quote:

---

I plugged the date in on the patent site thinking this would be a breeze. Welllll, up popped over 250 patents for that date.

---

posted 06-02-2006 12:50 PM            

Thank you for this info! I didn't know how the patent office/operation worked. Boy, I bet that Dec 24, 1867 was a busy Xmas eve day getting that batch out as they were no doubt trying to get out the door for the Xmas holidays.

--- Susan

posted 06-06-2006 10:28 PM            

Interesting. Thank you! I guess a chemical analysis would be a sure way of determining the exact metal. As these things are heavy enough to be door stoppers <just kidding, I'd never use them for that purpose>, I assumed it was pewter.

Thank you again, adelapt!

posted 06-07-2006 07:58 PM            

>Chambersticks like this were common enough in the United States from the 1830s on--stylistically they could be as early as the 1820s or 30s.<

Interesting - as early as the 1820s. When you say "stylistically" should I assume that the style of my pair are included? Ooops, like genealogy, I should never *assume* a thing!

>Only one known solid silver chamberstick of this form is known in American silver, one by George Gelston (NYC, late 1830s)...<

I didn't realize they were rare by America silversmiths. I have gone over these chambersticks again with the proverbial "fine tooth comb" trying to catch a glimpse of a marker's mark. I did spot on the base of one of them what appears to be remnants of a machine-made circle. It appears to be about 5/8" to 11/16" dia. About 1/3 of the circle is rubbed out. The interior of it is a mess of scratches. Could this be the remnant of a mark/stamp? Following is a blow up of the area with the circle.

>...the conical thing is the EXTINGUISHER, not the snuffer, which is the scissor-like thing used to SNUFF THE WICK<

At one time I did think it was strange that the conical thingy and the scissors were both referred to as snuffers. Thank you for the correct terminology.

>If I ever am in my office again, I'll try to get an image and post it.<

Ohhhh! I'd certainly enjoy seeing one by Gelston!

Thank you for your very informative post.

--- Susan

posted 06-11-2006 09:55 AM            

Thank you for the 2nd opinion!

>Also, it is extremely common for them to have no marks, since for several years it was actually forbidden for OSP pieces to be marked at all.<

Glad to know. I don't have to strain my eyes looking anymore. However, that machine made circle did raise my curiosity.

Thank you for the info.

posted 06-13-2006 07:07 PM            

Thank you for this info. If I happen on an opportunity of a chemical analysis, I will certainly have it done.