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 Help to identify unmarked tankard (cann)
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| Author | Topic: Help to identify unmarked tankard (cann) |
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trailboss Posts: 5 |
posted 06-30-2008 04:36 AM
  
I recently found this tankard at a resale shop. I've been collecting art for 40 years and appreciated the engraving. I'm now learning about it to appreciate it more but find no marks. No numbers, no stamps, no initials. Lots of engraving and evidence of tool marks and hammer marks. The cylinder has been joined using a square notched and soldered joint. The inside still has some scribe marks from the maker laying out the metal. It was tarnished black when I bought it. I cleaned it up a bit. Any help will be appreciated. I included a click to enlarge thumbnail image. Oh, it's 5" tall. Thanks guys. IP: Logged |
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trailboss Posts: 5 |
posted 06-30-2008 05:21 PM
I've done a bit more research and this is what I've found. Firstly, the handle is made from two mirrored halves and joined. I've included a clickable thumbnail. Also, the top is beaded, that is it's rolled outward to make a rounded edge to drink from. Definitely hand worked for the beading and the handle construction. The handle and beading shows tool marks and a bit of hammer marks remain. I've learned that Tankards have covers, Mugs and Canns do not. Canns are silver mugs. I supect this Mug to be made of coin silver as it shows no signs of color in the engraved areas other than silver and silver tarnish. Also, it sounds like silver when I thump it :-) Not like the silver plated copper or silver over brass. I tested the silver content and it shows less than Sterling. It seems that Mugs and Canns have followed the same design shape evolution as Tankards. "From 1700 � 1730 they are straight sided; the earlier ones, although they are somewhat straight sided have spiral fluting...In America the regional differences were more pronounced. The 18th century saw baluster Tankards with mid-bands and a domed lid in New England while New York Tankards tended to keep a flat lid and a straight body. Baluster Tankards are seen in both New York and Philadelphia, although not often...hollow handdles started in the 1640's and by 1695 were more elaborate..." Stylistically, this Cann would match 1700-1730 Colonial New York with a hollow non cast handle and non-cast base. The engraving method is more typical of this 18th century period than of later dates. Please only link your thumbnail images to the full image and not to the image hosting album page. It would be nicer for all if you would just size your images to 640 pixels wide (or less) and post them with your text. [This message has been edited by trailboss (edited 07-01-2008).] IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 06-30-2008 11:44 PM
Hello, thanks for the photos. Both handle and engraving appear to me to be European. You said the body was joined by a seam. The description sounds as though that joint is a dovetailed joint which if it is then it is more common in copper/brass items. My gut feeling is that it is not American but European. I am no expert so let us see what others have to say. IP: Logged |
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trailboss Posts: 5 |
posted 07-01-2008 02:05 AM
Thanks argentum1, You are correct on the handle design and the engraving having a European flavor. It is for this reason that I suspect it may have come from NY. I believe New York is one of the Colonial locations that copied European silver designs quite closely. The seam is more like a finger joint than a dovetail joint. Straight instead of tapered cuts. Interesting thoughts... Scott, thanks for the feedback. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 07-02-2008 11:30 AM
I am not seeing anything stylistically to support the kind of dates you seem to be hoping for. I am also not seeing anything that would suggest it is not silverplated. 'Thunk tests' are not of much use. Not seeing brass wearing through doesn't mean much other than it is not so worn though or it is worn through but the underlying base metal is a silver colored one such as nickel alloy rather than copper or brass. If it is well worn it would be useful to see what kind of wear pattern/patina it has - though it looks like you polished off much of the patina. From what I can see in the photo it is not very worn so my impression is it is unlikely to have a great deal of age. I agree that European is one possibility for the engraving style, but so are a number of other regions such as the Near East, some Mexican work, some Asian work, etc. It could also be the work of a local metal smith or a local decorator who bought blanks and applied decorations. The lack of markings is a problem in getting much further in identifying what it is with much confidence. [This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 07-02-2008).] IP: Logged |
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trailboss Posts: 5 |
posted 07-02-2008 11:49 AM
Kimo, Thanks for the reply. Stylistically, I'm thinking that it sorta matches this British style. Was popular from early 1700's to 1800's, though this one is shown in pewter. In terms of the silver plating vs. solid metal question. The engraving is too sharp to have been plated over and even with thick plating, the engraving would have cut through the plated surface. I can clearly see through a microscope that the cuts are all one color to their depth. Now, it very well could be true that the underlying metals are of a non silver content, but a silver test again reveals that the depth of engraving is silver of 85-90%. Its pretty easy to apply test solution in small quantities in the cuts and see the indicators under a scope. I agree, not much wear showing. Good point...hmm... I suspect it's not a blank that has been decorated as the handle is silver soldered onto the engraved barrel of the cann. Same evidence on the bottom attachment, shows the bottom silver soldered onto the barrel with bits of solder spilling into engraved lines close to the joint. It's pretty obvious that the engraving took place while the barrel was separate from handle and bottom. Good discussion... Thanks... [This message has been edited by trailboss (edited 07-02-2008).] [This message has been edited by trailboss (edited 07-02-2008).] IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 07-02-2008 12:51 PM
The design and quality of work on your mug reminds me of metalwork from India. ~Cheryl IP: Logged |
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trailboss Posts: 5 |
posted 07-02-2008 01:41 PM
Cheryl, Thanks for the input. It does for me as well. The lack of quality is the one thing that really causes me to doubt American or European origin. Though the piece required hours of work in manual labor to produce, its not quality work that we have come to expect from known silversmiths. Excellent feedback. Ken IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 07-02-2008 02:07 PM
Currently there are pieces from India that are made of silver solder. Solder has a low silver content. So, it will pass the acid tests. It is also workable. From what little evidence I have been able to gather, these are not much exported. (Can not find a website selling these things, but have handled them and been told a story about a trip to India.) Instead, workers make the items for sale to tourists. The workmanship is fairly skilled. Production is on a small scale. Usually the items are in a style used in the West. Anyway that's my take. Need to do another what's happening now in silver. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 07-02-2008 04:24 PM
An unmarked object's style can only establish a general 'earliest' date and does not help much in terms of when such an object may have been made after that date up until the present as popular designs are reused constantly over the years. Construction technique also is of minimal use on unmarked objects since old techniques are still in use today in many parts of the world where things are made in small shops and factories in countries where labor is not expensive - basically throughout the developing countries around the world. IP: Logged |
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