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| Author | Topic: Can anyone identify this? |
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mejane0_0 Posts: 16 |
posted 02-23-2012 09:59 PM
  
I bought this Victorian castor set. I have not found a maker's mark. I'm seeing others sort of like it by Walker & Hall. I think it's English. I'm not sure whether it's two lead crystal jars are for pickles or jam. The jars are about 5"x3". The frame was nearly black and I've tried to polish it gently with Hagerty's liquid, then cream, and have found the tarnish doesn't really budge except in a few spots. Does this seem like Britannia? Any suggestions about cleaning it? Should I continue to try to polish it? If so, any suggestions would be great! Thank you. See mejane0_0 intro: Hi, I'm new here and have a question] IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 02-24-2012 11:50 AM
Are there any markings or hallmarks anywhere on the metal? If so could you please add a closeup photo of them to your thread? If there are no markings you can be pretty sure that it is either silverplate by a lesser maker or some other non-silver metal. The uneven results from polishing suggest either thin silverplate with worn through to base metal areas, or some kind of lacquer was spraying on the silverplate to keep it from tarnishing. That only works for a while and overtime you can get tarnish under the laquer and that is what is keeping your polish from working. Trying to attribute an unmarked object to a particular maker is not something I would recommend. Once a general design becomes popular all kinds of no-name makers and even some regular makers start to copy it. Name makers are avid about marking their wares since it is very important to their marketing, building sales, security of their wares until they are sold, etc. IP: Logged |
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mejane0_0 Posts: 16 |
posted 02-24-2012 12:41 PM
Thank you very much Kimo. I see no marks at all on the frame. So maybe just a cheapie. I'm looking in the blog at threads about testing metal. It's not on copper. It may be just grey pot metal. Lacquer never occurred to me, but it makes a lot of sense since it's so ornate. Sometimes they do that to copper cookware and it drives me crazy. I use acetone to dissolve it. Maybe I'll try a little on the bottom of the castor. I appreciate your advice about attributing it without evidence. I'm mostly interested in figuring out when and where it was made. I love using these old things and love to have the history in mind. Thank you IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 02-24-2012 09:18 PM
Jane, My guess would be silverplate with the silver mostly worn off, from the 1880s-90s, judging by the design. The daisylike flowers hint of 1870s-80s Aesthetic Movement design, but if it were early enough to be wholeheartedly Aesthetic it wouldn't have those Rococo feet. But it has no whisper of Art Nouveau, which I would expect if it were from a little later. I could, of course, be completely wrong. I often am. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 02-25-2012 11:23 AM
quote: I would not expect it to be on copper as that is normally found under the better quality silverplate objects as it is more expensive than 'pot metal. My guess is the metal is more likely a zinc alloy, perhaps with some tin or nickel or such tossed in. I think Polly is correct about the date especially when looking at the glass and the overall wear, but again one needs to be careful with dating such things. An 'earliest' date is not difficult and Polly has the right of it, but there is no 'latest' date as once a design comes into being it never really goes away and there are constant revivals over the years. For example, the big revivals these days are for Deco and Arts and Crafts since that is what the market is going for today. 30 years ago you could hardly give away those styles, but Nouveau was really big. The newest revival that is coming along the fastest and is eclipsing these is mid-century (1950s-1960s). IP: Logged |
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mejane0_0 Posts: 16 |
posted 02-25-2012 11:36 AM
Polly, Thank you. I see what you are saying about the date. The dates you suggest make sense to me. When the plate has worn off is the base metal dark grey? I saw something very much like it, Sheffield plate, same exact handle, double castor marked Phillip Ashberry and Sons from precisely the 1880-1890 period. The jars even look the same. This has inspired me to make some Lemon curd and Marmalade! IP: Logged |
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mejane0_0 Posts: 16 |
posted 02-25-2012 11:39 AM
Thank you Kimo, yes, i see what you mean. I remember picking up lots of International Silver plated trays and figural pieces for catering in the early 90's when there was a Victorian craze. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 02-25-2012 05:44 PM
Re-plating is always an option. Your castor set is very attractive and appears to have the original glass inserts. Old glass has become more interesting to me of late and it is somewhat unusual to have the original glass with your piece. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 02-25-2012 09:04 PM
Lemon curd sounds perfect. IP: Logged |
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mejane0_0 Posts: 16 |
posted 02-25-2012 10:32 PM
Ahwt, Yes, I've never had any replating done. I have had my copper pots retinned by two different outfits. One kept my stock pot for a year and I had to report him to the Better Business Bureau. The second one did a fine job and fast turn around. Is it OK to ask here for recommended replaters? I live in Maryland. The glass jars are in perfect condition. If it was silver, it would be gorgeous again I would be so happy! My lemon curd would be very proud. IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 02-25-2012 10:32 PM
quote: Just for the record, many companies, such as Dixon and Ashberry, offer identical pieces both plated and unplated (ie as britannia, german silver, whatever). If there is no remnant of old silver, I would leave it be before considering a silvering that may not be re-. IP: Logged |
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mejane0_0 Posts: 16 |
posted 02-25-2012 11:00 PM
Thank you Wev, That's really interesting. I wouldn't want to completely wreck it. After polishing I see a several small areas of shiny silver so I'm thinking re may be a possibility. Everyone who replates will want to see it so I am searching the area for someone reputable to take it to for an estimate. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 02-26-2012 11:09 AM
Going to see the replater is a very good idea. You will want to see some examples of their work to see if it is to your desired standards. Also be aware that they should factor in the cleaning and polishing of your castor before they plate it. Just dunking it into a replating bath without that kind of preparation is fast and inexpensive but it gives marginal results at best so it tends to be the way the fly by night replaters do it. Also keep in mind that some base metals are hard to plate with silver and sometimes need an intermediate metal plating. That is why you really do want to go and see and talk to the replater you choose before letting him get his hands on your nice things. One last thing to think about. When you get something replated it will be all nice and bright and shine all over, but it will have no patina. It will look new almost like it was made yesterday. Some people like patina as it makes their things look old and full of history. [This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 02-26-2012).] IP: Logged |
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mejane0_0 Posts: 16 |
posted 02-26-2012 12:56 PM
Thank you Kimo for this very good information. Going to see the re-plating company in person will be interesting to me. I see a couple of re-platers on line who offer the options of different levels of shininess on re-plated antiques. I assume they are replacing "patina" chemically, with sulfur. Any opinions about that? IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 02-27-2012 12:00 AM
I am not sure what they would do to get a less shiny color. It is possible they might apply a sulphur compound to get an instant tarnish, but I don't think that would bring down the shine. Perhaps they acid etch it to reduce the polish? I don't know. You should ask them what they do to it. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 02-27-2012 12:18 PM
Sulfur is what causes tarnish on silver and a silversmith can tarnish the object and then carefully polish it to leave the tarnish in the nicks and crannies while bringing the main surface back to a shiny finish. I think they use liver of sulfur for this process. Your castor is a perfect candidate for this process and the dark background will really enhance the contrast so that the patterns will pop out. If you live close to a big town I think it would be advisable to visit the shop of a silversmith and talk to him and see what else they have done. I have a friend who sent her 1820’s coin silver tea set off to be repaired and the company convinced her to re-plated and lacquer it. The set is now very shiny and will be until the varnish start to yellow. Silversmiths are fun to talk with and I always see interesting silver when visiting their shop. IP: Logged |
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mejane0_0 Posts: 16 |
posted 02-27-2012 12:33 PM
Thanks Ahwt. This forum is really great. I made a few call this morning and I plan to go over to Baltimore and get into DC for some face to face consultations. I'm only about an hour form both. I would rather do my leg work research before paying for a tasteless re-plating job. IP: Logged |
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