|
|
|
|
| REGISTER (click here) |
How to Post Photos
|
|
 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 New members post here
 2 Silver enameled old salt
|
 SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! |
next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: 2 Silver enameled old salt |
|
Moni45 Posts: 6 |
posted 04-29-2013 08:59 AM
  
Dear forum readers, I would like to briefly introduce myself to you. From my 15th year (almost 68 now) I collect antique jewelry (18th and 19th centuries)of which Micro Mosaic jewelry are my favorites. I was born and raised in the Netherlands and I am an amateur collector. I therefore have a good collection together in the course of the years. And that collection tarried until now limited to jewelry. But very recently I happened to these two salts. Because I have no sense of silver utensils I now ask your council to find out what could be, by whom they were made and when. That's why I signed up on this site and that is where you could possible help me. So I am looking for the origin, the maker, the year and the production location of my two silver enameled salts. I am a collector of antique jewelry. I do not posses any knowledge of these kind of artifacts. With a range that indicates that they contain 835 silver and they have been imported in the Netherlands as early as 1953. They have a marking on the ball feet: ZII. This is the only hallmark available, but I’m quite sure they are not made in Holland. They are made with great craftsmanship and beautifully decorated with flowers in blue, green, white and rose enamel. I don’t know whether they are made with cloisonné or CHAMPLEV technique or any other enameling technique for that matter. There are three ball feet below each salt and they have a beautiful scalloped edge. They are each about 2.5 cm high and including the sculpted edge almost 4 cm in diameter. After doing research on the internet and asking local professionals I still cannot determine, where, how and when exactly these salt have been made. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Marga, the Netherlands. IP: Logged |
|
Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 04-30-2013 10:17 PM
I do not know this marking but hopefully someone here will. My initial impression is that these look Russian and if that is the case the marking may be the Cyrillic letters Ze Pe which would likely be the maker's initials. If they are Russian, though, I would have expected some additional markings, though since they appear to be very small that my be a reason why the maker did not bother marking them. IP: Logged |
|
davyd286 Posts: 4 |
posted 04-30-2013 10:38 PM
Z is not a Cyrillic letter. Marga correctly identifies the mark ZII as Netherlands. IP: Logged |
|
Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 05-01-2013 03:29 PM
Thanks Davyd. I see that you are correct. The Netherlands uses the Z II marking as signifying .835 silver purity. IP: Logged |
|
Moni45 Posts: 6 |
posted 05-02-2013 05:19 PM
Because it is so that the Dutch ZII mark is an import mark and The Netherlands has no other choice than silver marks for either 800 or 835 or 925 silver these salts could probably Russian? Given that the Russian silver mark is the closest to the Dutch 835 silver label? I appreciate your feedback! IP: Logged |
|
Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 05-03-2013 09:30 AM
Champlevé is when you carve recesses into the metal, or make the recesses by casting the metal that way, fill them with colored vitreous enamel, and heat it to melt the enamel into glass. Cloisonné is when you take a smooth piece of metal and solder wires or very thin strips of metal to the surface to make nice designs and then fill in the little enclosures that have been made by the wires with vitreous enamel and heat it to melt the enamel into colored glass. Your little bowls are cloisonné. I do not know where your bowls were made. By far the largest producer of cloisonné was China, but it was also made in many other countries including Russia, Sweden, Middle Eastern countries where the technique using thinner wires was first perfected, and others. It is a time consuming process, but not a very complicated one and so most any competent silversmith or silver factory in any country could develop the skill to make these if they decided to do so. Since there are no makers marks my first thought would be China just because of the seemingly infinite quantity they have produced over the centuries but I would bow to anyone else here who has a better thought. [This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 05-03-2013).] IP: Logged |
|
Moni45 Posts: 6 |
posted 05-03-2013 09:57 AM
Dear Kimo, Thank you for your detailed explanation and I am now finally clear that this is cloisonne. Of course, I would of course still very much like to know which country these salts are made. Because this particular fine work concerns not think myself primarily to China. Maybe there is someone else has a different view on the matter. But I am grateful for your time and effort and wait on the next message. IP: Logged |
|
Moni45 Posts: 6 |
posted 05-03-2013 11:54 AM
What I'd like to note further, most Chinese cloisonne has twisted (serrated) wires. These salts have smooth wires. IP: Logged |
|
Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 05-03-2013 01:38 PM
Most Chinese cloisonné does not have twisted wires. That is simply one style that is sometimes seen. They have been making cloisonné for many hundreds of years and you sometimes see small variations such as the twisted wires or with silver foil under clear enamel, or with many other kinds of little differences as some Chinese makers were trying to make their wares a little different from all of the rest of the Chinese makers which is the plain kind such as you have. I am also thinking Chinese because of the quality of your bowls which from the closeup I would say are nice but closer to average rather than the refined jeweler's quality that you tend to see on some Russian and Swedish work. Because there are no markings other than the import ZII and because this kind of work is so widespread I am not sure you would ever be able to tell where these are made unless some new information comes up such as finding these exact bowls in a very old sales catalog or such. Perhaps someone here will have such information. IP: Logged |
All times are ET | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
  |
|
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a
|
1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums. 2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development). 3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post. |
|
copyright © 1993 - 2022
SM Publications
All Rights Reserved. Legal & Privacy Notices |
