|
|
|
|
| REGISTER (click here) |
How to Post Photos
|
|
 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 New members post here
 Mystery mark and lack of hallmarks.
|
 SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! |
next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: Mystery mark and lack of hallmarks. |
|
billben2014 Posts: 6 |
posted 11-02-2015 01:10 PM
  
[26-2537] I'm a new member, I come late to silver collecting as I have always collected glass, I recently acquired a 1909 atomizer top minus the bottle and my interest began. I have now acquired what may be a tea/tobacco caddy with a hinged lid (not lockable). It is engraved as a presentation piece dated 1867.and has beaded rims and heavy engraved decoration. I have no reason to believe it is not silver, there is no evidence it is plated. The only mark on the base is WB, this is in the center of the base and of the type you would expect to form part of a hallmark. It is similar to the William Bateman mark but the outline points outwards instead of inwards and of course the date is past the date that Bateman was working. I read in the forum that Judith Miller stated that silver items (esp provincial) can be found without hallmarks. This item was presented by the staff of a workhouse near Swindon to a local doctor on the event of his marriage. I would appreciate any comments regarding the lack of hallmarks & in the meantime will try to master the photo system. Could someone suggest a free picture host, can I use my Google account ? Many thanks IP: Logged |
|
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 11-02-2015 11:34 PM
Thanks for posting the inscription. After a little Photoshop.... Perhaps one of our genealogy members will find the inscription interesting and lets us know more. IP: Logged |
|
Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 11-03-2015 08:24 AM
My first impression is that it is silver plated given the lack of any hallmarks and it would be appropriate to start out with the assumption that it is plated and not solid silver until one can prove otherwise. One can find solid silver made in other countries without silver markings but it is not common. Technically, only British silver has true 'hallmarks' since the term refers to the British assay offices' markings which were originally applied by the Guild Hall to guarantee purity hence the term today, however, all countries have their own systems of markings which many people loosely call hallmarks to ensure such purity standards. A silversmith can make things out of silver and not have them marked under the laws of the country in which they are working but that is unlikely since they will want to get the most money for their work and marking their work as solid silver is a major marketing tool for them. Making something of solid silver and then not selling it as solid silver makes little sense. Also, any silver that was imported into Britain to be sold as solid silver was hallmarked at one of the British assay offices and has an added import marking. In 1867 is would be the letter F in addition to the silver hallmarks. The way to tell for sure what metal this box is made from would be to use a specific gravity test. Unlike acid testing which is destructive and not terribly reliable since it only tells you what the metal on the surface is, specific gravity testing is non-destructive and quite reliable. [This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 11-03-2015).] IP: Logged |
|
billben2014 Posts: 6 |
posted 11-03-2015 08:35 AM
Many thanks for your comments they are much appreciated, I am taking it to a working jeweler tomorrow but my gut feeling is that it is silver. There is no evidence of seams and the engraving is so heavy in places it almost shows through on the inside and yet there is absolutely no evidence of copper or other material underneath. I accept it still could be plate but its interesting that the makers mark cannot even be traced. Perhaps you could enlighten me on one point, whilst I accept what you say about a silvermaker wanting to have his goods hallmarked, am I correct in assuming that there was a charge for this, Im only wondering if this was a local silversmith and given that the item originates as a gift from charitable organisation (workhouse) could it be it wasnt hallmarked in an effort to reduce cost. Like many things in the antiques world we can only guess and will never know the answer, I will however update you on the results of the silver test. Many thanks again IP: Logged |
|
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 11-03-2015 08:36 AM
Thank you Kimo. Good response. Kimo is correct, the specific gravity test would be the better testing idea. Tomorrow, don't let the jeweler use acid. Acid will remove the silver and to properly do the acid test the jeweler will have to deeply file to reveal any copper. DON'T use acid on anything you want to retain its value. IP: Logged |
|
agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 11-03-2015 08:40 AM
That’s an interesting box. A few thoughts about the single mark. This use of a single mark on some provincial pieces is a characteristic of the 18th century or earlier. By the 19th century hallmarking was more scrupulously observed across England (though not in Scotland). This might suggest the box is in fact plated, but a single maker’s mark like this is also not typical of plated ware. If you are right to think it is a silver box one possibility is that it was second-hand when it was engraved and presented. Without its Victorian engraving I could imagine it as having originally been made in the 18th century though I still can’t produce an attribution for the mark. And it is possible that the box had been unmarked, the WB stamp being added by the Victorian engraver. I imagine the officers of the workhouse were its senior staff who would not have been particularly highly paid which might support the second-hand suggestion (or indeed the box being plated). I don’t think the elected guardians or governors would have called themselves officers. IP: Logged |
All times are ET | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
  |
|
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a
|
1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums. 2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development). 3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post. |
|
copyright © 1993 - 2022
SM Publications
All Rights Reserved. Legal & Privacy Notices |
