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| Author | Topic: seek help identifying maker of large spoon |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 12-18-2016 02:47 PM
  
Need help identifying maker on this large stuffing/basting spoon. Mark appears to be an HW or IW (or MI or MH) and the W has a distinct extension line coming out of it between the letters. There are also 2 "X"s scratched on this as shown in the pic and I'd like to know if they mean anything. Any help appreciated. note to admin: I accidentally uploaded two of the same pics and don't know how to delete the duplicate... [This message has been edited by cbc58 (edited 12-18-2016).] IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 12-18-2016 06:20 PM
This is not a definitive answer. I'm afraid that my eyesight finds your photo of the marks too small and indistinct for that. I cannot even tell whether the date letter is C or O. On the basis of the other marks I take it that the spoon must date between 1789 and 1818. I think the maker's mark could be WE in which case one possibility would be William Eley, a known spoon maker. However, he worked in partnerships for much of his career from 1797 onwards, using punches that also included the initials of his partners. If the date letter is for 1789 it would be when he was on his own, simply marking with WE. If with the spoon in your hand you see no possibility of the mark being WE, or if the date letter is for later than 1789, my apologies for a red herring. The little mark just above the maker's mark may be a journeyman's mark. The two scratched Xes must have meant something to whoever scratched them but at this remove there is no way of knowing what. IP: Logged |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 12-18-2016 06:30 PM
quote: Thank you for the reply I will look up his mark. What do you mean by journeyman's mark? Would that be an apprentice in their shop who actually made the spoon, yet it is stamped with the makers mark? Would that mean that spoons without the journeyman mark are more valuable than one's with it? Trying to learn... tks IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 12-18-2016 07:03 PM
The maker's or sponsor's mark on a piece of silver is, generally speaking, the mark of the proprietor of the workshop where it was made. By the date of this spoon it may sometimes be the mark of the retailer who commissioned it. A busy workshop with several employees would sometimes have the worker (journeyman) who made the spoon add an identifying mark to keep track of which worker made what. The journeyman was a qualified silversmith but of course some items will have been made by apprentices too. The presence or lack of a journeyman's mark has no relevance to the value of silver. Some maker's marks may command a premium because of the quality of workmanship and design from a particular workshop, but the "maker" is unlikely actually to have made the piece, any more than Christian Dior himself made the dresses sold under his name. Even a simple spoon is likely to have involved at least two workers: one who actually made it and another who polished it to give the final finish. IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 12-19-2016 11:00 AM
The way the hallmarks are arranged, (Top to bottom) dates this piece between 1805-1820. If you can tell us what the date letter is, we can tell you the year.  IP: Logged |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 12-19-2016 12:01 PM
I understand the date code system - it's the maker I'm trying to identify. The W (or M) has a distinct look to it and I am trying to get a better pic. Have tried exploding it in Infranview and it becomes illegible beyond a certain point. It's not William Eley according to research... [This message has been edited by cbc58 (edited 12-19-2016).] IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 12-20-2016 10:51 AM
Here are two of mine that I believe to be by William Eaton:  IP: Logged |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 12-23-2016 07:48 AM
Have a question on hallmarks on old Georgian spoons. I am noticing that some have hallmarks at the top of the handle, while others have them lower on the handle down closer to the bowl. The lower ones appear to be older. Was it common practice to stamp marks lower before the requirement to add a duty mark? Have also come across a spoon that someone is referring to as a "duty dodger", which I assume means that it was made without putting a duty stamp on it at the time it was required. Are these more or less collectible than ones with a duty stamp? Are there any good books focusing on old spoons? Tks in advance. IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 12-23-2016 09:30 AM
Spoons were typically bottom marked (by the bowl) until around 1780. Around the time that the duty mark started, 1784, they moved the hallmarks to the end of the handle. Duty dodgers were silversmiths that bypassed the assay office altogether and simply stamped their makers mark four or five times (usually on bottom marked flatware) and when they reshaped the stem from the distortion of the markings, it squeezed and distorted the marks, making them hard to read therefore looking like a legitimately hallmarked spoon. These duty dodger pieces are usually good sterling silver, they simply did this to avoid the tax (duty) on the silver. Even though the duty mark started in 1784, the duty was around before that, they just didn't have a hallmark for it yet. "Silver Flatware" by Ian Pickford is a great book on the subject. With a little looking around online you should locate a copy without too much trouble. It's out of print, so shop around. It can be very expensive. If you can find a copy for around $50, grab it! IP: Logged |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 12-23-2016 12:01 PM
Thank you. I found a copy and have it on order. Appreciate the info. I am gaining an appreciation for the British hallmarking system. IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 12-23-2016 01:53 PM
I like the British hallmarking too! Let us know how you like the book. IP: Logged |
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