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johnswetnam Posts: 18 |
posted 08-22-2017 03:51 PM
  
Hello, John Swetnam here. My interest in silver is general, of long standing, and my interest far exceeds my knowledge. I am going to try to post pictures to go with this post. I recently bought a silver cup that I am unable to make sense of. It is 40 grams, 2.75" tall, 2.25" top diameter, and 1.5" bottom diameter. It has three marks on the bottom. There is a clear "80" between two other marks that are TINY and very worn. These two marks are much smaller than the "80." It has beautiful Art Nouveau, floral engraving that matches very closely in style the engraving on some ca. 1900 Russian silver cups that I found on line. These were marked clearly to allow maker, date, etc. to be determined and they were marked with the Russian 84 zolotnik purity mark. I think my cup is not plated, based on its age and clear amount of use (which would have resulted in wear to plating) and the depth of the engraving and marks (which would have exposed some sign of a nickel or copper base, as has been the case in the plated silver that I have handled in the past). On line I have found one statement that zolotnik marks other than the few common ones are found, but rarely, on Russian silver. So I've wondered if the "80" is a zolotnik mark. I have looked at endless Russian, Eastern European, and Scandinavian silver marks in the hope that my eye would then be able to at least guess at the content of the two unidentifiable marks on this cup. This has proved to be of no use. Even under my jeweler's magnifiers the marks remain entirely unguessable. It would be lovely is anyone could give me help with the "80" mark's purity meaning. Hello and thank you, IP: Logged |
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johnswetnam Posts: 18 |
posted 08-22-2017 04:56 PM
Regretfully, I am unable to post pictures to the site. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 08-22-2017 04:58 PM
Why can't you? IP: Logged |
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johnswetnam Posts: 18 |
posted 08-22-2017 05:04 PM
I followed all site directions, but it would not accept my pictures no matter what I did. The only comment I could get out of the site was something like "no valid form token" which has no meaning to me. I did send you an email containing the pictures. I tried various ways to get the pictures to load from my computer, putting them in different places, different folders, etc., but none of this worked out for me. (The three pictures are in a folder in my iPhotos.) John IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 08-22-2017 05:13 PM
Using your Id/pw:  IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 08-22-2017 05:16 PM
Are you uploading a file which is more than Maximum allowed file size is 1.00 MB? IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 08-22-2017 05:47 PM
You need to figure out what the problem is at your end .... in the meantime: IP: Logged |
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johnswetnam Posts: 18 |
posted 08-22-2017 07:16 PM
Thank you. I tried to post the pictures one at a time, but that did not work any better than posting them as a 3-picture file. My pictures do not show anything about how many MBs they are, so I can't tell about that. I did try everything there was to try with my iPhotos application and the picture posting site on SSF, so am stumped for now. Thank you. John IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 08-23-2017 03:24 PM
What a beautiful cup! Try saving your photos in a somewhat smaller resolution. That may make the file small enough, if the problem was oversized files. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 08-24-2017 03:44 AM
Nice looking cup. I think you will be lucky if any of us are able to identify the tiny indecipherable marks. I am sure the 80 is not a zolotnik mark. I have not come across anybody using an 80 zolotnik standard. I suppose it is possible the somebody might have used 80 instead of 800 for 800/1000 standard silver. Otherwise numbers are often just a factory mark to identify a pattern or an order, of course. Whether the underlying metal shows through the engraving or the marking on an electroplated item might depend on whether it was carried out before or after the plating, but this is not meant to be a judgement on your cup. Let's hope somebody can come up with more helpful comment! IP: Logged |
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johnswetnam Posts: 18 |
posted 08-24-2017 12:05 PM
I had thought about the possibility of the plating going on after the engraving, but the sharpness of the lines in the engraving are such that I decided that I didn't think that was what happened. Thank you to every one who has been helpful. Last night, I sat down with my loops and bright light and raking light and began the who-knows-what-number of exams of the marks, thinking to give it yet another "last try." I realized that the 8 and the 0 were oddly far apart in an earlier exam, but this time I realized why: there are the faintest remains of another 0 between the 8 and the 0. This gives the marks a less haphazard and more professional appearnce. As I said before, the marks are as worn as they can get and still be there at all. Still no sense of any chance of identifying the other two marks, but getting the 800 settled is fun. John IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 08-24-2017 08:57 PM
The photo editor I currently use has a tab marked export to file. When I use this there is a block that I fill in to be 500 pixels. When I use this setting the file is small enough to be accepted by this web site. Your photo editor may have a similar procedure. IP: Logged |
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johnswetnam Posts: 18 |
posted 08-24-2017 09:39 PM
Thank you. I'll check that out and see if I can do the same. John IP: Logged |
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