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| Author | Topic: Russian marks |
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maxagadir Posts: 3 |
posted 03-10-2018 03:39 AM
  
Hi, first of all, sorry for my English. I am Dutch and probably will make some mistakes. I am not especially interested in silver, but in antiques general, especially early Biedermeier. After an accident I need a cane and this stick is offered to me,for xxx€ claiming it as solid 84-silver. It has Russian marks:O.C. 1896, 84 and another mark (chandelier, leave?) In an earlier post I read O.C. stand for Josef Sosnowski, the assayer. The online Encyclopedia of Silver says: "it was strictly forbidden for the assayer to punch his mark on any object unless it had previously been punched with a marker´s mark." While this marker mark is missing, my question: are these marks false, and is the cane a fake? Thank you, Mathieu [This message has been edited by maxagadir (edited 03-18-2018).] IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 03-10-2018 08:55 AM
Welcome. I am not sure what is officially required....hopefully another member will know. Thanks for posting the photos. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 03-13-2018 11:55 AM
hallo en welkom, Mathieu. The 84 marking can mean either that it is the 84 zolotnik standard of silver which is an alloy of 84 parts pure silver mixed with 12 parts other metal (usually copper), or it can mean it is silver plated with 84 grams of silver per set number of similar objects. For example, on spoons it would normally mean that 84 grams of silver was used to plate 144 spoons. When you see an 84 on something that looks like it is silver and it does not have the expected full set of markings you see on Russian silver, this normally means that it is either not Russian silver or it is silver plated. If it is solid silver and the 84 is a zolotnik marking then it would mean the object should be from some other country near Russia that also used the 84 zolotnik standard and did not have a requirement for as full markings as Russia required. I do not know all of the countries that did this, but I know that Poland and Persia are two examples. The third possibility is that the markings are fake and the forger was not knowledgeable. The possibility that the Russian assay office did not properly mark this are close to zero. All of that aside, I very much like this cane handle - it is very elegant and for someone who uses a cane they should be proud to have this as their cane. [This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 03-13-2018).] IP: Logged |
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maxagadir Posts: 3 |
posted 03-18-2018 10:28 AM
Hit thank you for your response. Sorry it took me some time to reply, but i find the site a bit difficult to use. You are right, the stick is beautiful, but i payed xxx00 for it, under the guarantee that it is solid silver, so i want to be sure that it i no fake. Mathieu quote: IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 03-18-2018 11:06 AM
Please do not post prices or values. That is one of the most important rules of this forum. We are here only to enjoy talking about silver objects and their history and beauty and not their commercial value. The price of silver per ounce is very low - you can check the prices on line at silver bullion dealers - so the main value of most any object made of silver is in its artistic and historical interest. As I mentioned, the handle on your cane is unlikely to be Russian but it could be solid silver alloy from some neighboring country that used the zolotnik purity system of marking. If you really want to be sure it is solid silver alloy of the 84 zolotnik purity standard which means it is 87.5 percent pure silver, then you would need to have it tested using a non-destructive method which would be by Energy Dispersive X-Ray Fluorescence or ED-XRF. You should ask around among the jewelry stores or large metal recyclers in your city to find someone who owns one of these testers and arrange to have your cane handle tested to learn the exact mix of metals that are in it. If you would like a definitive opinion as to whether the cane or perhaps just its markings are a forgery then you should contact an expert appraiser in your area and have them examine it up close. Such appraisers normally charge a fee for their expertise. IP: Logged |
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Gaspare Posts: 97 |
posted 03-23-2018 12:50 AM
Wow! what a beauty of a cane! Really nice detail from what can bee seen. Must [should] have some nice weight to it. What are the eyes? Gems? or just black glass? or,, Can you post a photo of the markings you have on it. Nice and big,clear, and straight please.. [This message has been edited by Gaspare (edited 03-23-2018).] IP: Logged |
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