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Is this very old? Where & when was it made?

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Author	Topic: Is this very old? Where & when was it made?
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 06-03-2012 09:01 PM I bought this bowl? jar? at a NYC flea market today for the price of a (pricy) sandwich. Me: What is this? Seller: It's a very old bowl. Me: How old? Seller: Very old. Me: Where's it from? Seller: Dunno. Me: What's it made of? Seller: Dunno. Me: Well, where did you get it, then? Seller: I bought it in a shop a long time ago. Me: What did they tell you it was? Seller: A very old bowl. It's about the size of your fist, if you have a large fist (please don't hit me). It's made of thin, nonmagnetic metal, maybe copper or bronze? It's covered with crusty stuff, except for three clean, dark dents in the bottom in a symmetrical triangle around the center. They look like maybe they were left by tripod feet, or something like that. When I blew on it, a puff of dust came out (achoo!). It looks raised, not cast, to me. Anyone have any idea where & when it might be from? Was it looted from a tomb? Is it haunted? Was it wrong of me to buy it? I don't want to encourage looters! But I was compelled to follow the Sandwich Rule (If anyone offers you something fascinating for the price of a sandwich, you are obligated to buy it). IP: Logged
agphile Posts: 798 Registered: Apr 2008	posted 06-04-2012 04:56 AM Yes, it's a very old bowl. I'm no expert but the shape could be that of a Roman beaker or, if it once had handles, a Greek or Roman drinking cup, that has lost its foot. However, it is not a shape unique to the classical world. Until you hear from somebody better informed I guess you are stuck with the seller's description and crossed fingers. IP: Logged
ahwt Posts: 2334 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 06-04-2012 08:52 AM Your bowl reminds me of Rene Belloq’s dialogue from the Raiders of the Lost Ark - “Look at this. [holds up a silver pocket watch] It's worthless. Ten dollars from a vendor in the street. But I take it, I bury it in the sand for a thousand years, it becomes priceless! (or at least the price of a sandwich) Like the Ark. Men will kill for it; men like you and me.” Your bowl is may be considerably older than 1000 years and really has great patina. Wonderful fine for a collector. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 06-04-2012 09:32 AM Golly, a genuine very old bowl! I hope nobody kills me for it. Thank you, agphile and awht. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 06-04-2012 10:35 AM Okay, this is freaking me out a little. I decided to use a measuring tape to quantify "the size of your fist" a bit more precisely. My Very Old Bowl is EXACTLY 3 inches high and exactly 3 inches in diameter across the opening at the top (or it would be if it were still round there). The ring where it reaches its maximum diameter is EXACTLY 2 inches from the bottom, 1 inch from the top. Does that change anyone's thoughts about how old it is? Where did they use inches in the ancient world? IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 06-04-2012 10:37 AM By the way, the bowl is very round and straight and stands precisely on its little round foot with no rocking. It just looks crooked because I had trouble taking a straight-up-and-down photo while holding the tape measure in one hand and the camera in the other. Edited with a straighter photo: IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 06-04-2012 11:25 AM Answering my own question: Wikipedia says the Roman uncia or pollex is .971 inches and the Mesopotamians "grain" was .0025 m, which is .098 inches. IP: Logged
agphile Posts: 798 Registered: Apr 2008	posted 06-04-2012 07:08 PM Well, at least you have established that it is consciously well proportioned which strikes me as very classical: rules for holloware just like architecture perhaps. IP: Logged
David C Walters Posts: 64 Registered: Apr 2012	posted 06-06-2012 09:28 AM I don't have anything substantive to add to this conversation, but I wanted to let you all know that I am avidly following it as I am fascinated and want to find out where and when this bowl came from! Polly ~ Great rule! I don't think I have ever heard that one before...but rest assured that I will be following that little nugget of wisdom for the rest of my life! IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 06-06-2012 10:19 AM Thank you, David and agphile. I sent photos of my Very Old Bowl to an antiquities dealer, who wrote, "The overall shape makes me think it might be Western Asiatic broadly speaking, possibly 'Persian' and it could indeed be up to a couple of thousand years old." So it's unanimous so far: What I've got here is a Very Old Bowl. IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1627 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 08-31-2012 05:18 PM Very Old Bowl seems to be pretty likely. The only other possibilities that I can come up with is Not As Old: 1. piece off of a machine 2. bottom part of a smudge pot or similar industrially used thing 3. fence post top protector (to keep fence posts from rotting) 4. wheel hub cap from an old wooden wheel 5. ??? I raise these other possibilities because the dimensions seem too unlikely for it to be a Very Old Bowl. IP: Logged

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