Old pewter - SMP Silver Salon Forums

SM Publications

Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.

SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

Welcome to the Silver Salon Forums !
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!

Flatware/Holloware - non silver Forum

The Silver Salon Forums are open to anyone with an interest in silver and a willingness to share. Know little or nothing about silver? Don't worry! Anyone with a genuine desire to explore the subject of silver and related metal crafts is welcome.

To successfully join in,
you must know the following !!
click here

Favorites:^(9/09/07) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

REGISTER (click here)

How to Post Photos

SMP Silver Salon Forums
tline

Flatware/Holloware - non silver Forum
tline3

Old pewter

profile | register | preferences | faq | search

SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone!

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Author	Topic: Old pewter
ahwt Posts: 2334 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 04-05-2020 05:06 PM This is a large (16 inch) charger in something called Super Fine Hard Metal. This must have been proprietary name for this smiths or region’s pewter. The marks look like it came from Scotland. We do have some members that are interested in pewter and I wonder if they know anything about this piece. I think the one mark may be for the maker and it may be : J pellet WYL??. The last two letters are not well struck. We have some other old pewter, but none have aged as well as this one as the finish on this one is quite attractive. [This message has been edited by ahwt (edited 04-05-2020).] IP: Logged
pewter2 Posts: 11 Registered: Dec 2017	posted 04-05-2020 06:01 PM Hello AHWT love your charger good size and as mentioned of Scottish provenance....even better in my estimation.. In extremely good condition ...even better The maker was one J Wylie of Glasgow ( J not indicated in reference material) and charger would date from c1840. The X signifies and verifies quality and superfine hard metal signifies the purity of same. The makers mark often..not always..have an additional mark of the Glasgow town mark signifying the "...tree that wouldnt grow , the bell that wouldnt ring. the fish that didnt swim the bird that didnt fly " I will leave that to you to read the fable surrounding these details. Pewter is not malleable so pewter wares were cast and subsequently finished by turning and further finishing on plates and chargers etc where the boogee of the plate was further strengthened by plannishing same boogee ( ie the rounded part of the bowl shape of the bottom) The size of this charger may/may not suggest it may have been part of a communion set....a patten and a communion flagon set,, the condition may suggest that. For reference refer to Cotterall..Old Pewter Marks page 342 mark 5323 . Loved doing research on your item .. as an aside '' Have so much more to contribute to this forum...have difficulties with uploading pics'...best have got is the addition of 2 pics in gallery (silver items) Regards pewter2 ------------------ [This message has been edited by pewter2 (edited 04-05-2020).] IP: Logged
ahwt Posts: 2334 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 04-05-2020 09:08 PM Thanks so much for that interesting information. The idea that this plate rested in a church somewhere to develop such a nice patina may explain why is has such a uniform finish. We brought this urn really for the form. It does have a nice finish, but not as deep or undisturbed as the plate. It is a surface that is slightly speckled showing a non uniform response to its environment. I have never polished pewter and maybe that is all it needs. This urn has some marks on the bottom; but they may not be real marks. For photos I am not really an expert, but I have found acceptable pictures can be taken with either my iPhone or iPad. The Forum’s photo site is really easy to use and we certainly will help you. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 04-05-2020 09:46 PM quote: Originally posted by pewter2: as an aside '' ..have difficulties with uploading pics'...best have got is the addition of 2 pics in gallery (silver items) Regards pewter2 On Oct 17, 2019 you successfully placed images in the SSF Photo Gallery. If the instructions in the How to Post Photos using the Silver Salon Forums Photo Gallery aren't clear please tell us whats not working. IP: Logged
pewter2 Posts: 11 Registered: Dec 2017	posted 04-05-2020 10:24 PM hello again AHWT Challenge.....the mark sadly pitted but a common LONDON makers surround......look at the shape from a 5 oçlock position ..top mark and usually stylised feather effect around side edges....your piece a common styled footed tureen around c1800 and again most likely English. unfortunately mark is not decypherable...... sorry that happens at times. There were also many pewterers working in America and styles followed similar styles from those imported from England but also dont forget the influences from German,Dutch and other European immigrants. Tin was imported from Cornwall, England to America and around late 1700's early 1800's (not sure period), the excise on tin was increased and a lot of English pewter was melted and remufactured.......tinkers were known or suspected of adding supplement softer metal(read lead) to supplement scarcity of tin. I have a porringer of Philadelphia origin which is very soft...I use it for reenacting purposes. It must be stressed that contrary to popular belief pewter does not/should not contain lead....the colouring when aged is a result of oxidisation.....pewter is an alloy of tin and bismuth, not malleable so casting method is used ( not to me mistaken with that of Britannia metal which has the addition of antimony to allow it to be malleable so as it may be pressed and/ or turned) I keep on thinking of other info which may be of interest to pewter collectors and I seem to get a bit bogged down.....however if the purpose of it is deemed as a learning curve and there is interest here goes. Pewter was always as was silver presented polished and I have noticed so with most American pewter is POLISHED)...this was in England when once a year pewter was polished and OILED...plates and chargers were usually displayed front to wall of rack exposing the rear of same....again shiny as this product substituted as silver alternative ...more middle class..the peasant class ate from treen( wooden) wares whereas the gentry had their silver services again, the latter POLISHED. Methods of manufacture of hollow wares eg. tankards, measures teapots to name a few were cast in pieces, ie top, bottom, middle, handle, spout, hinges etc , and as a rule more often than not all joins were HORIZONTAL, as opposed to Britannia metal objects which could be turned/spun, hammered out from one piece or folded where those joins would be vertical. The End.........on and on and on.. and on,,....but joking aside I hope this helps, not only regarding your tureen above , but hope to forward information to others interested. References if interested Nadolinski Old Household Pewter Ware Hornsby Pewter of the Western World Woolmer Pewter of the Channel Islands Barkin European Pewter in everyday life 1600 to 1900 ontgomery A history of American pewter That is a start ..another 8 or more to refer to if needed ------------------ IP: Logged
ahwt Posts: 2334 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 04-06-2020 04:05 PM Thanks again for all the good information. I did a search of this smith and several religious items turned up in various auctions. He may have made this for the use you suggested. IP: Logged

All times are ET	next newest topic \| next oldest topic
Administrative Options: Close Topic \| Archive/Move \| Delete Topic
	Hop to:

Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a

^1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

^2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

^3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.

| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver