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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Viennese Wien Ratzersdorfer
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| Author | Topic: Viennese Wien Ratzersdorfer |
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jaynewdyemd Posts: 8 |
posted 12-28-2004 07:39 PM
  
[Note: September 7, 2006. Apology due to your group. I am on this list twice, just joined in 2006 as jdye. Unintentional. Forgot these entries in 2004 on the same set. I have learned more of H. R. in the intervening 2 years. Perhaps these two threads should join?] Third attempt. Posts won't work. Trial with just pictures. Courtesy W. Voss. Inside box lid. Box is not fancy. Inside fitted box bottom. 6 knives, 6 spoons, 6 forks. Dessert set, I am told Each spoon has a face on the front and another on the posterior. Each of these faces can be turned upside down and become another face. Same for knives, same for forks. 12 faces in all. IP: Logged |
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jaynewdyemd Posts: 8 |
posted 12-28-2004 08:02 PM
Now I will try to post my questions:
When it comes out the price is to be $32.50 USD and 28 Euro. If one of you is interested I would like to know if marks are described or pictured. That is a high price for me. Jayne W. Dye, MD Lancaster. OH. USA IP: Logged |
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jaynewdyemd Posts: 8 |
posted 12-28-2004 08:06 PM
The dealer we purchased this from was Mr. Krupsaw of Washington DC. We have had this set about 40-45 years. He had this same (or perhaps a series of the same)item in the identical spot on a bottom shelf of his store across from the National Archives for at least 15 years. We made many purchases from him and he had an excellent reputation among the various government departments, offices, and foreign embassies as an honest, fair dealer. If he truly only had this one which went unsold for 15 years then that is the answer to my question about it being a collectible. Not very. Apparently only to me. I bet the old hands on this forum are laughing their heads off. No flaming please. IP: Logged |
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jaynewdyemd Posts: 8 |
posted 12-28-2004 08:15 PM
Thank you for making the pictures show on the page. I did a "view page source" from a right click and the coding is very std HTML. I am not allowed to write HTML as it says to the right of this message. As I normally write all my own web pages, this restriction is annoying but we can live with it. I still need to be assigned an editor to filter my posts through. IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 12-28-2004 08:49 PM
We don't really do editors -- it's catch as catch can for the most part. The image problem was not yours, but MS email; the single address lines I sent got wrapped and a hard return inserted by Outlook. Take them out and the links work fine. IP: Logged |
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 12-28-2004 09:45 PM
There are some around here who can probably give you more information but after your unrelenting efforts you deserve to get some answer asap. About all I can say from the picture of the mark provided is that it falls between 1867 and 1924. A sharper picture MAY allow to narrow it slightly. An interesting set of flatware is always collectible by someone; whether Ratzersdorfer is a particularly sought after name, that I have no idea of. I'd expect any museum in Vienna and its curator to be rather knowledgeable but I have no personal knowledge in that regard. A quick search via Google shows that Dr. Schmuttermeier has juried modern craftsmen but in her main job is responsible for a collection going back to the Middle Ages. Given the scarcity of sources I'd take my chance on her. "... $32.50 ... That is a high price for me..". I would guess that you haven't looked at many listings of available books on silver or any other antiques for that matter. I hope someone can give you more information but it seems to me that you have something that is interesting and given how long ago you bought it, you probably don't need to worry about what you paid for it either. IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 12-29-2004 01:02 AM
Well, yes, as 19th Century Austrian silver goes, Ratzersdorfer is very well-known indeed. I cannot vouch for Dr. Schmuttermeier personally, but I fully concur with Arg(um)entum's assessment. However, I did have the great fortune some time ago to correspond with the most kind and generous Dr. Waltraud Neuwirth, who is without question the leading authority in the world on the subject of Viennese silver. She devotes 9 pages of text and photographs (all of items very much in the style of your dessert set) to the Ratzersdorfer firm in her exhaustive and definitive "Lexicon Wiener Gold- und Silberschmiede und Ihre Punzen: 1867-1922". The firm was founded in 1843 by Hermann Ratzersdorfer, and it quickly excelled at producing elaborate designs in the then-popular Rococo Revival and Historical styles. They were known particularly for their intricate enamels and exquisite carved rock crystal. He exhibited at the London Exhibition of 1851 (prize medal) and the Paris Exhibition of 1855 (2nd class medal). In 1871, he exhibited over Ł1,000 worth (no small sum at the time) of gold, silver and carved rock-crystal dressing table items in London. He was given a diploma of honor at the 1873 Vienna World Exhibition, and was represented by seven items in the Austrian Musem of Art & Industry's 1889 exhibit, as well as by nine items in their 1914 retrospective of 19th century works. In short, not too shabby. Unfortunately, this type of work takes a back seat to the much simpler Biedermier styles that went before it and the Wiener Werkstatte styles that followed, and the collector's market is not nearly as strong for it as it is for those two styles. Pity; I think it's amazing stuff. Arg(um)entum is correct about the 1867-1924 mark on your piece. I cannot make out the other marks on it in your photograph, but identifying them (and therefore possibly the particular workmaster at Ratzersdorfer's workshop) might narrow that range. That being said, I would date your set stylistically to the mid 1870s. It shows a distinct Slavic influence, very like the better Hungarian work of the 1840s & 1850s. Hope this answers some of your questions, and thanks for sharing this great set; it was worth your troubles! IP: Logged |
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