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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Russian Romanov era candlesticks
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| Author | Topic: Russian Romanov era candlesticks |
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wizard Posts: 78 |
posted 02-15-2005 03:29 PM
  
I have had these candlesticks for some time and believe they are Russian 84 silver, as marked with additional markings as follows; one appears to be a horse with a curvy upward tail. IP: Logged |
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wizard Posts: 78 |
posted 02-15-2005 04:00 PM
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sazikov2000 Posts: 254 |
posted 02-15-2005 04:05 PM
The hallmarks of your fotos are not Russian. Sazikov2000 IP: Logged |
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wizard Posts: 78 |
posted 03-07-2005 09:26 PM
looks like a lion with turned up tail but I was told it was Russian 1800's. IP: Logged |
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wizard Posts: 78 |
posted 03-07-2005 09:28 PM
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 03-08-2005 12:32 AM
Russian? Well, yes and no. They're Polish, but from the time when eastern Poland was part of Russia (1851-1915). Specifically, they're by Mojzesz Princenthal of Warsaw and date from 1908-1915, by virtue of what looks to be the second "kokoshnik" mark there. (It's blurred in the photo, but I think I can make out the "84", which stands for 84/96 pure silver, or .875, roughly.) "MP" is Princenthal's mark and the lion (horse?) his trademark. Oddly enough, another Princenthal piece turned up recently here in the forums: see Estonian walkingstick. Hoping this rewards your perseverance in posting those photos! IP: Logged |
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Kayvee Posts: 204 |
posted 03-08-2005 04:13 PM
Would Blakstone be willing to further analyze the oval kokoshnick mark on this piece? What is the mark to the left of the fineness number - the one that looks like an arrow or a horizontal pine tree? Thanks. IP: Logged |
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sazikov2000 Posts: 254 |
posted 03-09-2005 11:02 AM
The kokoshnik mark is not easy to see, it has to be cleaned first to make a clear statement. This mark was in use from 1868 to 1871. My opinion: Sazikov2000 IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 03-09-2005 04:55 PM
I agree with sazikov2000 that the mark really needs to be cleaned and photographed more sharply before any further identification can be made. In the photo, it does rather resemble the Orgeyev mark, but that just seems odd to me; why would a piece made in Warsaw, Poland be assayed in Orgeyev, Moldava? It wouldn't have been "exported" per se, since they were both part of the same country (Russia) at the time, and logic would suggest that it sould be assayed where it was made: Warsaw (since I have no doubt about that; Princenthal's trademark pretty much clinches that for me.) My gut still tells me that it's a worn or distorted kokoshnik mark, but, as I say, I reserve judgement until I can see a better photo. IP: Logged |
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wizard Posts: 78 |
posted 03-09-2005 09:09 PM
Thanks to Kayvee,Blackstone and Sazikov for their valued input. It has indeed been rewarding to be able to post pictures.Here are some better ones I believe. It is indeed a horse rather than a lion; also the MP is clear; as for the 84 and the other I await your input. Murray IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 03-10-2005 11:48 AM
As I suspected, the "84" mark in question is indeed the Russian second "kokoshnik" mark, so called because the female head shown is wearing a kokoshnik: a type of ceremonial head-dress. The faintly visible little squiggle behind her head is the Greek letter iota, which was the distinguishing mark of the Warsaw assay office. To iterate, then, the marks on your candlesticks indicate that they are .875 silver and were made in Warsaw, Poland by Mojzesz Princenthal between 1908 and 1915. [This message has been edited by blakstone (edited 03-10-2005).] IP: Logged |
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wizard Posts: 78 |
posted 03-11-2005 07:57 AM
Thanks to Blackstone, Sazikov and others for their detective work on these Polish candlesticks. As it happens, I have traced my genealogy back to 1756 in Poland and don't have many artifacts from there so this info on the Warsaw origin of the pieces is invaluable. Sorry it took so long to get good pictures. Murray IP: Logged |
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