SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
Continental / International Silver Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  Continental / International Silver
tline3open  French mark and T Fres

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   French mark and T Fres
Patrick Vyvyan

Posts: 640
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 03-09-2005 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick Vyvyan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[07-0237]

Can anyone please enlighten me as to the makers T Fres (the T brothers, perhaps)?

I have several pieces of flatware which was presumably well traveled. Some have the Minerva mark, others the export Mercury, mostly with the small Hare re-import mark.



However, I recently noticed this small mark on one piece only next to the Mercury - can anyone please explain its significance?

Many thanks.

IP: Logged

blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 03-09-2005 03:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well. "T. Fres." are Tétard Frères, founded by Hugo Tétard in 1851 and from 1880 run by Edmond Tétard. After Edmond’s death in 1901 the company was continued by his sons Henri, Jacques and Georges when it took the name Tétard Frères. Valérie Bizouard and Louis Tardy joined the firm in 1919. (Bizouard was the director of the assay office until 1936; Tardy - presumably the same Tardy of the European mark book - succeeded him until 1959.)

The comapny made excellent Art Deco flatware and hollowware, and by the 1930s it ranked alongside Puiforcat, thanks mostly to the talents of Jean Tétard, the grandchild of firm founder Edmond Tétard.

As for the Mercury mark, I notice that it is one of the new marks introduced in 1973 (when the .950 standard was lowered to .925 - so sad); the "A" indicates manufacture in the years 1973-1983. As for the other mark, it appears to be the Minerva head in outline.

Apparently, this is the new minimum fineness mark for small silver, introduced in France in July 1984, replacing the old "crab mark", per Decree No. 84-624, Article 1:

quote:
Le poinçon de garantie à l'image du "crabe", institué par l'article 2 de l'ordonnance du 30 juin 1835, est remplacé, à compter du 1er juillet 1984 , par un poinçon représentant une "tête de minerve" découpée, dont le dessin figuratif est semblable à celui des poinçons de titre utilisés pour les ouvrages en argent.

Translation:

quote:
The guarantee mark in the image of a "crab", instituted by article 2 of the ordinance of June 30, 1835, is replaced, as from July 1, 1984, by a mark representing the "head of Minerva" in outline, whose representation is similar to that of the title marks used for silver items.

I suspect the date problem (A = 1973-1983; new small Minerva introduced 1984) is answerable somewhere in this French legislation. I'll try to plod my way through it and see if I can figure it out.

IP: Logged

Kayvee

Posts: 204
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 03-09-2005 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kayvee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would like to add a couple of points to Blakstone's schoarly synopsis. The Mercury head export mark with the A 1 indicates manufacture between 1973 and 1982, not 1983, as the letters go by decades. B would indicate 1983-1992, etc. Although legislated earlier, the "petite Minerve" did not come into generalized use until 1986. Finally, I believe that Bizouard spelled his first name with the masculine spelling of Valery, and indeed Louis Tardy was the first editor of the book we all love to hate.

IP: Logged

Patrick Vyvyan

Posts: 640
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 03-10-2005 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick Vyvyan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very many thanks both to Blakstone and Kayvee. On aproximately 40 pieces, either marked with the Minerva or Mercury mark, this spoon is the only one to have the small Minerva - perhaps it was just a simple mistake and the assay official meant to use the Hare re-import mark? But if you ever discover another more technical reason I'd love to know!

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2022 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices