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Author	Topic: Turkish or Bulgarian
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 06-26-2005 09:44 AM I also got this spoon in Bulgaria. I cannot identify the symbol, which seems to be a bird of some sort. The other mark looks Arabic. Another odd thing is that the hallmarks are stamped on the front rather than the back of the spoon. Because the Turks occupied Bulgaria from the 14th to the 19th century, I thought this might be Ottoman. Can anyone help id this piece? Thanks, Tom IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 06-27-2005 02:45 PM I found a source that identifies the marks as Turkish (and therefore Ottoman) in use until 1923. Does anyone no anymore about this system of marking and more specifically how old this spoon might be? Thanks, Tom IP: Logged
blakstone Posts: 493 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 06-28-2005 02:46 PM I didn't recognize the tughra (or Sultan's monogram) from the photo. This device changed with each reign, so a careful examination of it can narrow down the date. A list of tughras may be found here: Sultans of the Ottoman Empire [tughranet.f2s.com/tughras/tughras.htm - link gone from the Internet] Click on each sultan's name to see his mark. Take care; reading these is tricky business. Good luck! IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 06-28-2005 03:36 PM Blackstone, Hard to read is an understatement, but it appears to be Mahmud II, 1808-139. Is the other mark that of the maker or a town assay mark? One of my colleague's reads Uthman Turkish, so I will ask him what letter it is. If I find out, do you have a list of the towns? Also, what silver content did the Turks use. On a side note, my visits to the open-air antique market in Sofia netted me one Romanian spoon I was assured was Bulgarian and a Turkish one I was assured was not Turkish! I have one more spoon that may actually be from where I bought it. One seller even had a spoon from the that ancient Balkan silver smith "Rogers." Needless to say, I did not get that one! Thanks again for all your help, Tom [This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 06-28-2005).] IP: Logged
blakstone Posts: 493 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 06-29-2005 03:16 PM The Ottoman silver standard was .800 until 1844 and .900 thereafter, but I understand that both the method of alloy and assay were notoriously unreliable. Both standards were permitted, with a tolerance of .010, from 1923. The other mark here is possibly a maker's mark; Turkey did not have specific assay office marks to my knowledge. It might also be the fineness; I simply can't tell from the photo. [This message has been edited by blakstone (edited 06-29-2005).] IP: Logged
ozfred Posts: 87 Registered: Sep 2002	posted 06-29-2005 11:10 PM The web site - [<gone from the internet>atamanhotel.com/niello.html] NIELLO has some information about Ottoman assay offices that may be of interest. IP: Logged

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