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Author	Topic: What is this
t-man-nc Posts: 327 Registered: Mar 2000	posted 04-04-2006 06:25 PM Does anyone know what this is or is used for... it 5 inches tall and 3 1/4 inches wide and has 6 separate little disks (hand made) attached around the top band and 3 little disks around the lower band. It has a date engraved (I hope you can make it out) of 1797, and the hall marks are correct for Norway, June 1788...:-) ... ... ... ... ... "Smaug" IP: Logged
blakstone Posts: 493 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 04-04-2006 06:48 PM Despite its ornamentation, it's simply(!) a beaker, usually given as a christening, wedding or other commemorative gift. The hanging medallion was a popular motif on Norwegian silver in the last quarter of the 18th century, being an adaptation of French, German and English neo-classical motifs into Norwegian & Lapland folk ornament. (This according to R. W Lightbown's "Catalogue of Scandinavian and Baltic Silver", which illustrates several examples similar to yours.) Could you enlarge the photos? I'd love to get a better look at the details and marks; maybe I could identify the maker. Nice piece! [This message has been edited by blakstone (edited 04-04-2006).] IP: Logged
t-man-nc Posts: 327 Registered: Mar 2000	posted 04-04-2006 08:19 PM OK I am trying to post a larger pic, OK that is about as big as I can make, the first mark is the castle from Bergen on page 303 of Tardy's, the second is an "MP" in a square Assayers mark for 1788, the third appears to be a makers mark poorly struck, the forth mark is "87" in a square, and the fifth is a Zodiac "69" sideways for June / July... The Makers Mark, is unknown to me as I have nothing to compare it to... "Smaug" IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 04-04-2006 11:40 PM Nice cup.Is it possible that the MP is really the zodiac sign for 21/8 to 23/9, and the 87 is acutally the year mark? Take a look at Tardy page 305. Tom IP: Logged
t-man-nc Posts: 327 Registered: Mar 2000	posted 04-05-2006 09:20 AM The "MP" is clearly seperate letters and is identical to the assayers mark at the top of 304, to the right is a markers follow4ed by as "87" and then the "69" on its side... so I think it is correct from the dates point of view. I wish I could see the makers mark better, or have a list of makers marks like in Belden's or Jackson's. Also would this ba a "Wedding Cup/Beaker"? I have only been able to find one example when googled, it was similar, but the disk ring were only on the top band and the disks were missing. It was identified and 1774, but the engraving methods, shapes and basic structure looked very close. Thanks "Smaug" IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 04-05-2006 10:47 AM I see. What about a communion cup or chalice? IP: Logged
blakstone Posts: 493 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 04-05-2006 03:03 PM Probably not a communion cup, but a wedding cup is a good possibility. Unless bearing a specific inscription identifying the event it commemorates . . . wedding, christening, death, etc. . . . I tend to forego such catchy terms and just call it a beaker. But again, cups such as these were typically given or commissioned for a specific occasion. The ornament varied in the types of engraving (fish and acanthus leaves are common) and also the number, placement and even shape of the medallions (lozenge shaped medallions are known as "Lapp leaves"; very popular in the Lapp market for which Bergen was the earliest and most important center). I believe t-man-nc's identification of the marks is correct, but the enlarged photo is just too blurry to say more. I can't read the maker's mark, but you say that it's rubbed to begin with. The book I mentioned, though, shows a nearly identical beaker by Andreas Lude (working 1776-1796), whose mark was AL. But this is hardly conclusive; this style of beaker was very common and widely made in late 18th century Norway. IP: Logged
FWG Posts: 845 Registered: Aug 2005	posted 04-06-2006 07:41 PM My reading of Lightbown is slightly different than blakstone's above: I think that the medallions Lightbown is referring to as imports from other European Neo-Classicisms are not the hanging pieces as seen here, but inset medallions found in some (generally larger) pieces. The 'dangles', as I've always called them, seem typical of Norwegian folk traditions -- for example, they're found on the traditional wedding brooches -- but they're not something I associate with English, French, or German neo-classicism. Inset medallions, on the other hand, are part of those neo-classic traditions. I've always guessed that beakers like this, with the 'dangles', were wedding cups because of this parallel with the traditional wedding brooches. But in any case they're quite nice -- and make a delightful tinkling sound when used! IP: Logged
t-man-nc Posts: 327 Registered: Mar 2000	posted 04-07-2006 08:37 PM I believe it is a "Wedding Beaker" I think, i have found and inscription "1797 + EGS + R (?) V" where the (?) has been erased or at least attempted. Yes it does make a delightful sound... "Smaug" IP: Logged

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