posted 10-02-2001 05:09 PM            

Here is a scenic Swiss silver footed cup.

In the scenery, some of the soldiers are on the ground and lined up as if in real battle, while others (1st close up) are just aiming at bird decoys (decoys not shown). There is also a soldier holding the Swiss flag.

There are two raised inscriptions along the foot. The first is: ERNST U SPIEL SICHER DAS ZIEL. The other is: EIDG. SCHüTZEN FEST LUZERN 1901.

Am not very good with German, but I think the first roughly translates to "If the game is played seriously, victory is certain." About the second, I only know it has something to do with Lucerne in 1901. I think "EIDG" is an abbreviation for something.

The base is marked with the Swiss hallmark for 800 silver, along with "0,800", a city mark, and "BOSSARD". The cup is small (3-5/16" h.) and well made.

Can anybody supply any information or speculation about what this cup commemorates or was presented for? Also, does the scenery depict something specific or not? (Better German translations might also be helpful).

posted 10-02-2001 05:26 PM            

glad you got this cup -- I was one of the bidders against you for it on eBay last month!

My German is pretty nonexistent too, but I know that a "SCHüTZEN FEST" is a "shooting tournament." And Luzern is the Swiss town more often known as Lucerne. So it seems pretty clear your cup was a prize at a marksmanship tournament there in 1901. Perhaps it was a military event (given the decoration), perhaps civilian.

Congratulations on a good buy. I hope you're happy with the purchase. I collect European cups and beakers too, but am more interested in earlier pieces, which is why I didn't bid higher on this one, nice as it looked.

Adam

posted 10-02-2001 05:35 PM            

And thank you...I am happy with the piece. Usually I don't collect European silver, but this seemed unusual.

posted 10-02-2001 09:47 PM            

So it could still be either civil or military. I'd guess it was open to all Swiss citizens, though, based on the decoration of the cup showing both soldiers and civvies. Perhaps the contest is still held today; have you checked?

posted 10-11-2001 08:30 PM            

You may know more than enough about this cup by now, but I have another bit of information for you. I happened to be looking through an old Sotheby's catalogue tonight (European Silver, Geneva, 24 May 1993) and found a cup very similar to yours. Oh, and it sold for over $25,000!

But before you give up your day job ... there are a few slight differences. For starters, the Sotheby's cup, in gilt silver, is dated c. 1580.

Its form, however, is almost identical, and its size is almost the same. Like yours, it has a frieze around the rim with applied girdles above and below, and a decorated foot. And the frieze, like yours, shows a scene of huntsmen in the woods -- in this case, going after bears and deer.

The cup is described as a "setzbecher" (this term is not explained) made in Nuremberg by a silversmith named Sebald Buhel. In the late 19th century it and three similar cups were in the collection of Leopold de Rothschild.

So perhaps your cup is a traditional Germanic form that's somehow associated with hunting. Perhaps it was even copied from the Rothschild cups.

Is anybody out there familiar with the term "setzbecher"?

Adam

posted 10-13-2001 10:54 PM            

eidg. = short for confederation
schutzen = shooting
fest = fest
luzern = city of lucerne

Setz = sitting (upright)
becher = cup"

Meaning...."Earnestness and game assure the aim. Confederation Shooting Fest of
Luzern"

posted 02-20-2003 11:52 PM            

• "..does the scenery depict something..? .." - some civilians shooting on a range such at at a 'Schutzenfest', other part shows soldiers, hence:
  
• "ERNST U SPIEL SICHER DAS ZIEL" - loosely: whether in war or friendly contest, the aim is sure.
  
• "... just aiming at bird decoys..." no, they are shooting at conventional targets (black circle on white); some programs require a part or all of each series to be shot in each of the 3 positions.
  
• "EIDG. SCH�TZEN FEST " a civilian event much encouraged by the military. Most would use their army issue rifle. Held every few years.
  
• "...the cup is not engraved with the name..." that would be quite a chore to engrave all these cups. More telling is that it doesn't show what it was given for. That makes me think that it was for one of many optional programs.
  
• "SETZBECHER" - 'footed cup' is a reasonable interpretation; but it could also be more specific, i.e. an early or a regional spelling/pronunciation of 'Satzbecher' (ie. coming in sets). I'm thinking of the basic stackable silver becher that new members reportedly had to contribute to guilds on joining; as they were quite numerous, they had to be stackable to allow for economical storage in the strongbox.

posted 04-13-2003 10:05 PM            

quote:

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The LKSV is a mirror image of our society. It covers all generations of the young people starting from 10 years up to the veterans at the high age those the shooting on different distances and with different weapons exercises. Thus are united in a broad fan girls and boys, women and men in our federation under a roof.

The emergence of the Luzerner Kantonalschuetzenverein (LKSV)

The shooting nature is firmly embodied for centuries in the nationality of our country. It stands in the close relationship with the national characteristic of the confederation. In an old document from the year 1424 " the society is mentioned to " contactors in Luzern. Up to the establishment of our Kantonalschuetzenvereins in the year 1852 many further certifications are delivered to us, which move contactor activity in city from one and country Luzern report.

The Luzerner Kantonalschuetzenverein developed toward end of the last century to a strong federation, which verwurzelt in the whole canton is and since that time among the steady values of our society ranks.

Establishment 1852

This homepage is to point out, who we are, which we do and for which we exert ourselves together.

goal

Agency and support of the contractor associations in relation to the superordinate federations and the authorities

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Support of the association functionaries by offering further training courses

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Our purpose

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Promotion of the shooting nature and the Jungschuetzenausbildung in the interest of the national defense and the shooting
Care the comrade shank and the civic conviction

Our organization

Under the name Luzerner Kantonalschuetzenverein (LKSV) exists a federation in the sense of kind. 60 FF of the Swiss civil code. The LKSV was created 1852 under this name.

The LKSV consists of:

• 6 office contractor federations
  
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• Honorary presidents and honour members
  
• Federation activity

unofficial shooting nature

• Jungschuetzenkurse 1'500 participant
  
• mandatory program 25'000 participant
  
• execution of the Wettschiesen for the army honor

sporty shooting

• Kantonalschuetzenfeste every 5 years with zirka 10'000 participants
  
• annually many large and small contractor celebrations, totally zirka 20'000 participant

achievement-sporty shooting

• training of young match contractors
  
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Detailed information finds you on the sides " departments "

Contact information
Under the side addresses (executive committee) find you all contact people of the different departments.
For general questions the president is to you at the disposal:
Renato Steffen, Hirzenmatt 9, 6037 roots
Telephone: (041)4510170
Fax: (041)4510174
E-Mail: praesident@LKSV.ch
Last changed to: 06. February 2003
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