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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 faked 18th-c. French discharge marks
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| Author | Topic: faked 18th-c. French discharge marks |
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akgdc Posts: 289 |
posted 07-31-2006 12:11 PM
  
To respond to a query in another thread, here are images of the marks on a fake 18th-century French "coupe de mariage." The maker was a prolific faker, especially of these wedding cups, wine tasters, etc., and is included in the "Faux Poincons" section of Jacques Helft's book. The 1780s Paris "poincon de decharge" (appearing here next to an apparently genuine Minerve mark) is not at all badly done, especially given its small size. It is better executed than the larger hallmarks on the other side of the cup, I'd say. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 07-31-2006 12:33 PM
akdgdc, I have found it - thanks so much. In this connection I have a question - so many genuine old French pieces have the Minerve mark stamped in again - why and when was this done. Something similar seems to happen in Austria - modern Austrian marks are stamped twice on old pieces which came into the trade after the war. Your advice please, ------------------ IP: Logged |
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akgdc Posts: 289 |
posted 07-31-2006 01:23 PM
French law (not always enforced, I suspect, and in any case no longer in effect today) was that a piece had to be reassayed if it was put up for sale. Many genuine 18th-c. French pieces also have a 19th-c. Minerve mark. I also have a pair of 18th-c. plates that have been re-marked with 1819-38 provincial hallmarks. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 07-31-2006 01:37 PM
Thanks so much for the quick and good reply. Learned something. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Kayvee Posts: 204 |
posted 07-31-2006 03:55 PM
What I find to be the most helpful guideline in studying marks on 18th C French silver is that there should be concordance between the marks. For example, a piece with a charge mark for Paris 1785 should have a discharge mark is use at that date (a dog’s head facing left on large objects) and obviously the date letter that corresponds to 1785 for Paris (one of 3 possible crowned P’s). Also the maker’s mark should be for someone working in Paris during that time period. If these don’t line up as they should, loud bells should go off. Even if these marks are in proper concordance, the object could have been faked in other ways, but that is another story. Other marks you might find are those for the “recenses” or recounts that took place in 1797, 1809, 1819, and 1838 when there were major changes to the marking system. Anyone owning silver was required to bring their silver in for re-marking. Of course not everyone did, but the “recense” marks often are found. The mark for the 1797 recount is the head of Marianne on large objects. She faces right for Paris and left for the provinces. Finding recense marks on 18th C French silver can be a useful indicator of authenticity. There are over 400 18th C marks for Paris alone, not counting maker’s marks, so it is not surprising that we get confused today. This complicated system was meant to protect the public, but I believe it has given many opportunities for the unscrupulous to hoodwink buyers today. IP: Logged |
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