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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Wing? Rabbits head?
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| Author | Topic: Wing? Rabbits head? |
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Gaspare Posts: 97 |
posted 11-10-2006 11:15 PM
  
Hi. Have a silver ring marked inside band with a content of 800. On the outside of band there is this mark that is shown in the photograph. a design with a 4 to the bottom left and a H to the bottom right. My questions are: What country used this mark, and period of manufacture. In Tardy I find 2 that are pretty close. One being the Rabbits head of Czechoslovakia. But their mark for 800 only has one number, to the bottom right a 5... IP: Logged |
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Gaspare Posts: 97 |
posted 11-10-2006 11:17 PM
maybe a better view. ,Thanks , G. IP: Logged |
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kerppola Posts: 69 |
posted 11-11-2006 07:08 AM
I would say that it is not Austrian because for their #4 silver purity the Toucan head looks different. The Czechoslovakia mark for #4 is silver purity of 835 and the mark looks same so I think it is this one. I don't know what the letter H is. The period is 20th century after WWI. I believe they have not had any other silver marks during that period. My guess is that it is originally from Czechoslovakia and it has been exported to a Central European country where it has been marked with the 800 mark. I happen to have napkin rings with the Czechoslovakia mark, 800 mark and Gobel (possibily retailer) so I believe it is the same thing. Regards, IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 11-11-2006 10:28 AM
Your second guess is correct, the mark is the Austrian import mark for 4th standard (.800) silver in use since 1922, meaning that this item was made elsewhere and imported into Austria. "H" is the assay office code. (I don't have my list handy but will look it up as soon as I can.) Tha mark is a bird's wing and is illustrated on page 77 of Tardy; it's a little distorted here. You'll note that the Czech "rabbit head" has the standard number on the right, not the left as here, and that the outline is different. Hope this helps! IP: Logged |
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kerppola Posts: 69 |
posted 11-11-2006 11:27 AM
I guess blakstone might be right. My information is that the Austrian 4th standard mark looks like this so I was therefore doubting it. If it is ok here is another link to an Austrian mark: But as said blakstone seems to have a good book reference and better knowledge. Regards, IP: Logged |
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Gaspare Posts: 97 |
posted 11-11-2006 03:06 PM
Thanks to the both of you. The 'H' was throwing me off as its not mentioned in Tardys for Austria..Excellent information,,appreciate the responses,, thanks again..,G. IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 11-11-2006 09:26 PM
The toucan head is the mark for items made in Austria; the bird wing is for items imported into Austria. The assay office code "H" is for Lodz, Poland which was under Austrian jurisdiction during the Nazi occupation of both countries 1939-1945. There were a few other Polish, Czech and Slovak cities which used Austrian marks during the period. Assay office codes for Austria after 1922 are: W = Wien (Vienna) And the WWII offices (1939-1945), followed by their German names (which help explain the codes, being generally either the first or last letter), and the country to which they now belong: A = Moravska Trebova/Mährisch-Trübau (Czech Rep.) I will add this: although this is what the mark looks like, I have my doubts. It seems sloppy to me and the proportions are wrong. It might be a false mark, although an obscure WWII-era Austrian import mark is an odd thing to counterfeit. How about a photo of the ring? [This message has been edited by blakstone (edited 11-11-2006).] IP: Logged |
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kerppola Posts: 69 |
posted 11-12-2006 03:35 AM
Thanks blakstone for clarifying this for me too. Regards, IP: Logged |
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Gaspare Posts: 97 |
posted 11-13-2006 08:48 AM
Blackstone, I too am suspicious of the ring and the muddled looking stamp. But with these mid 20th cent. pieces you can never say never, sometimes you just have to believe! All kidding aside, my friend that owns it has never really been 100% satisfied with its originality so we are here asking the questions. thanks for all the help so far. , G.  IP: Logged |
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Gaspare Posts: 97 |
posted 11-13-2006 09:05 AM
Originally some thought this to be a 'momento mori' type ring. I disagreed, with the oak leafs on the sides for me it could have been worn by military personal. The 800 content stamp inside the band and these oaks lead me to believe it was German made [and now with your excellent information] imported to Austria. But again good stamps doesn't always mean a good piece! Heres a shot to show mark size..thanks, G. IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 11-13-2006 02:11 PM
Actually, seeing the ring, I now believe it to be 100% fake, and a pernicious one at that. I think it's supposed to be a "Death's Head" ring as purportedly worn by SS personnel during the Third Reich, and the Lodz mark some sort of sick reference to the atrocities comitted there by the SS. See need help identifying makers markfor another fake third reich ring. IP: Logged |
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Gaspare Posts: 97 |
posted 11-14-2006 11:01 PM
There are unofficial Totenkopf rings made available for private purchase for soldiers and civilians during the 30s and 40s.. This ring has some good provenance for it and it looks the part. Problem is the long time/experienced collectors of these pieces have never seen one until about 10 years ago. Also there is no period advertisements, no photos in wear, no dug examples. Rings like this can be very exspensive sometimes and it wouldn't be the first time a bogus stamp was used to 'help' add to it being looked at and passed off as an original. Blackstone, it is possible though that the ring was made in Lodz and imported to Austria.. I agree, the stamp looks muddled, it is on the outside rear of the band though so maybe wear could account for that. *Do you see a definite problem with the size/proportion of the stamp? , thanks , G. * IP: Logged |
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