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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Dutch or European spoon.. Is it "really" old ?
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| Author | Topic: Dutch or European spoon.. Is it "really" old ? |
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Marc Posts: 414 |
posted 09-16-2008 11:25 PM
  
Hi once again.. Here is another unknown for me.. A supplier of mine, a young man just out of the service, has picked up a number of items that he thinks are neat. Among them is this spoon which looks European. It is 6.5" long and appears to be 18th c., but the pin prick date is 1651. I told him to take some photos, and that I would pretty them up and ask my friends (you) for some help. I know there is a lot of fakes of earlier pieces about, so I won't be surprised if is later than the 1651 date.. If anyone needs additional photos, please let me know and I will head to his shop and take them. Thanks for your help as always. Marc
IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 09-17-2008 07:59 AM
Wouldn't comment on whether or not it's old but will say that doesn't mean it's real. The Dutch held on to traditional forms for a very long time, such as marriage spoons etc, so it may have been honestly made in an earlier style, whether this helps or not. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 09-17-2008 08:33 AM
To my eye the photo of the mark makes it look cast. Anyone else? IP: Logged |
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FredZ Posts: 1070 |
posted 09-17-2008 03:24 PM
It is difficult to say from the photograph. The background of the mark does look rather grainy which could give one the impression that it might be a cast piece. The authentic manufacture would have been a formed bowl soldered to a cast handle. I will have to hold my judgement on this one. Best, IP: Logged |
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Marc Posts: 414 |
posted 09-18-2008 01:19 PM
Hi Fred and all In regard to the way the spoon is put together, I drove back over to the shop and took a closer look at the way the piece was put together, and the condition. First, the spoon bowl is sheet, the handle is cast, the joint on the back where the handle and bowl come together is soldered, and a zig-zag line runs along the joint. The makers mark is stamped and worn. The reason it looks cast is (and you are right about this) the angle of the lighting in the photo. I looked at it strait on and it looked softer. I also looked at the front side of the bowl opposite of the mark and saw a little flattening from the stamp. I fogged up the area just to see if the mark had been let in, and no.. it hadn't been. The pin pricked "1651" date on the back was done such that you can see a shadow of the pricks on the front of the bowl, so I do not think that who ever did it was a pro. Secondly, the condition of this spoon is fair.. The cast handle has lost some of the detail to polishing. Cast silver never starts out with great detail when compared to stamped pieces, so this would fit in with a piece made a while ago. The bowl of the spoon still retains its original shape, mostly, so it can't have been used that much. I know that when I use silver regularly, there is tip wear, and over the period of a few hundred uses my table spoons will start showing use. Was this spoon not used much and just polished?.. Is that why the bowl is still shapely? I would still guess that it is 100 to 175 Is there anything further I should look at before I let my friend know what he has? Thanks again, Marc IP: Logged |
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