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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Antiquities Day at the Flea Market
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| Author | Topic: Antiquities Day at the Flea Market |
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Brent Posts: 1507 |
posted 05-07-2010 10:07 AM
  
Hello all, Not much surprises me any more, but I must say I was surprised and gratified to find two separate pieces of ancient precious metalwork in one day at my local flea market, from two different vendors. Logic and probability be damned, it happened. Attached is item number 1: Obviously the worse for wear, and likely an excavated piece from Europe. I am uncertain as to age on this. It has the drop neck typical of Roman spoons, but the square shank and diamond knop are more of an early Medieval feature. Does anyone have any insight into very early spoons? I have found lots of roman spoons, and Medieval diamond knops, but nothing quite like this. Thanks in advance, Brent IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 05-07-2010 10:31 AM
See agphile's post about Roman silver spoons IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 05-07-2010 01:52 PM
Now why can't I find things like that at a flea market? I would say the spoon is Roman and probably from around the 3rd century AD. Square stems are not uncommon on Roman spoons. While I have not come across a Roman diamond knop, and can't spot one in a hasty flick through my reference books, spoons of the ligula type have some sort of decorative finial so a diamond need not be surprising. Roman spoons were cast while I believe medieval spoons with finials were generally hand shaped and with a diamond rather than square shaped cross-section to the stem in continental Europe, or a hexagonal cross-section in England. Anyhow, a nice find though it is a shame that the provenance gets lost when ancient pieces like this find their way unrecognised on to the second-hand market. IP: Logged |
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Brent Posts: 1507 |
posted 05-07-2010 09:26 PM
Scott, thanks for the link; I had forgotten the thread! Agphile, thanks so much for your expertise. Looking at my spoon, though, I tned to think it is wrought rather than cast. It has a "dog-boning" flaw in the metal along one side of the shank, which seems to be a characteristic of hand-wrought pieces. I could be wrong, but I think it is wrought. Anyway, attached is the second piece, a very early ring of very thin gold formed around some type of filler, with a stone seal set into the top. Obviously badly damaged, but something to treasure nonetheless. Believe it or not, this came in to a scrap gold buyer, who saved it for a dealer who sold it to me. How something this old ended up being sold for scrap is beyond me. Any ideas as to its origin would be most welcome. Brent IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-08-2010 12:05 AM
Wow, what a pair of finds! I agree it's sad that they've lost their provenance, but it's great that they found their way to someone who appreciates them, at least. Did I ever show you guys my ancient Roman gold earrings? I bought them on that online auction site (for a fixed price, though, not in an auction). They had belonged to the seller's grandmother. The seller believed they were from the 1890s-1900s. I could tell they weren't, and I was so curious about their actual origin that I bought them as a puzzle. I spent the next month or two asking everybody I saw if they knew where my earrings were from, until at last someone sent me to an antiquities dealer who identified them as Roman. Once I knew what to look for I found a couple of nearly identical pairs on the British Museum website, from c. 200-300 AD. Here they are, front and back. Obviously the screw-on finding is a modern addition. Whoever added it curled up the part that's supposed to go through your ear hole, to get it out of the way. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-08-2010 12:17 AM
Brent, I'm very curious what the filler in your ring is. It must be something pretty strong, resistant to melting, and unappetizing to microscopic critters, if it's made it more or less intact through two millennia. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 05-08-2010 10:39 AM
Brent. I would still think the spoon is Roman, simply because of its form. I wonder whether the “dogbone” might be the result of hammering, either after it was cast to strengthen it or later in its life if its shape had become distorted? Incidentally, when I suggested 3rd century, this was a very rough guess. I don’t think it is likely to be much later than that because the fashionable forms changed, but it is not that different from spoons as early as of the 1st century. The ring is a nice find too. I wish I knew enough about classical mythology to identify the figure on its stone. The two pillars make me wonder whether it is Hercules. Is the stone cameo or intaglio? I see it differently each time I look. The Romans made both sorts. Stones were also carved in “antique” style in the 16th and early 17th centuries as well as stones from antiquity being re-used in new jewellery – there are examples in the London Cheapside hoard for example. I don’t know enough about the subject to guess whether your ring is an example of such later re-use but I imagine it is most probably Roman. Polly. Your earrings are fun and, as an example of re-cycling, very “eco”. Do you ever wear them or just enjoy owning a piece of ancient history? David IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 05-08-2010 12:06 PM
Thanks, David. I wear them all the time--they're my favorite earrings. I switched the screw-on finding for a pierced-ear finding to make sure I don't lose them. I wish I knew who the first owner was, what part of the Roman Empire they're from, and how they found their way to the seller's grandmother. IP: Logged |
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