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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Russian enameled things
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| Author | Topic: Russian enameled things |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 07-27-2010 11:41 AM
  
I'm posting images of a few small Russian enameled pieces acquired as a gift to the Museum back in 2000. We don't have a lot of Russian material (alas) but it is such an important link to other enameled silver and jewelry in our holdings. A box by Feodor Ruckert (pictorial) and another by Ivan Saltykov, both are in the form of little chests (neither is more than 3.5"wide). Is this form of particular importance in Russian material culture: Then we got two cigarette cases, one by Pavel Mishukov, in a sort of typical design--and I know things like this were retailed heavily in the US. The second cigarette case, by V. Kokhandorfer, is more interesting, sort of an "Old Russ" style with an image of a wounded soldier. World War I? IP: Logged |
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Postnikov Posts: 133 |
posted 07-27-2010 01:07 PM
Hi - would you be so kind and post the marks - because I have doubts about the first box (schatulka) - it is not the quality and the typical style of Fedor Rückert.The same for the second box... If you show the marks, normaly inside the enamel, I can tell you what you really have. The maker of the second cigarette case is Bernhard Johann Kochendörfer (Кохенлерфер Бернгард Иоганн). Please note that the Cyr. alphabet knows no H. The Russians spell Johann as Jogann, Bernhard as Berngard. He was wellknown in St. Petersburg 1780-1865. All this without seeing the marks, but two objects are very dubious! Regards [This message has been edited by Postnikov (edited 07-27-2010).] IP: Logged |
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Postnikov Posts: 133 |
posted 07-28-2010 08:06 AM
Hi - here are 4 objects of Fedor Rückert, 2 from my collection. The difference in style and quality is at once visible - the reason why he was a supplier from Fabergé! I am very interested in seeing the marks of all your "treasures". Regards IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 07-28-2010 09:39 AM
Postnikov, Your & Ulysses’s examples are extraordinary; thanks for posting them. Any chance we might be able to see the marks on your examples? Thanks IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 07-28-2010 12:31 PM
I was afraid you'd ask for marks. THis will take a while; no staff, no photographer, no time...but I will make a point to get downstairs and drag these out. I'd point out that any one manufacturer such as Ruckert (and Tiffany) produce things for range of market levels. Just because something isn't "A" level doesn't mean it's a fake. But of course the Russian object world is rife with fakes. IP: Logged |
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Postnikov Posts: 133 |
posted 07-29-2010 08:51 AM
Hi - the Russian silversmiths did not know "A" level or "B" level"! There were absolut strict rules for what was acceptable and what not. Fedor Rückert had his own independent workshop and by his outstanding, total new designs and quality of his enamel work + colours was by Fabergé elected to be one of his numerous suppliers. Every collector nowadays knows that most of the Russian silver-, enamel- and niello objects on the market are faked. If you are interested to get the right names and dates of the silversmiths of the Russian objects in your collection - I can do that for you. If you want to know wether your objects are fakes - I can give you the answers. When I visit a museum I want to see the real things, with the right names and backinformations (Feodor Ruckert????)and not contemporary, missleading things fresh from China, declared as "B" objects. Just my opinion - I am accustomed to get the fire when I tell someone he has a fake. The Internet and the famous auction houses are full of phantasy fakes - all classified as authentic. It is up to you to get a clean and informative collection. Regards IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 08-01-2010 01:41 PM
Postnikov: This is an item I paid very little for so it doesn't really matter if it's a fake, but I'm curious. It has a Latvian control mark that was used after 1923 and either worn or poorly stamped marks that (possibly) look like the Moscow mark and a silversmith's initials. Even if some of the things pictured above are fakes, I would have to think these would still be difficult and time consuming to make. Thanks IP: Logged |
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Postnikov Posts: 133 |
posted 08-01-2010 03:12 PM
Hi vathek - the Latian mark looks ok, but the picture is too small to see details. Normally the Russian marks should be more pregnant and readable because they are rather protected on the underside. The overall condition is "very good - like new", the colours much too bright, the enamel without ageing (we speak of ca. 130 years)but the marks are only fragments. In normal life not possible - so a fake is possible. That you payed not much money for it is no excuse that it is a fake. If someone sell you something as a contemporary copy - you can decide if you want it or not - the price will be acceptable. But if somebody sell it to you as an authentic piece from 1880, priced around 1500.00 USD and you discover later that it is a fake worth only 60.00 USD - I do not belive that you will be very happy. Most people think: this quality can not be made for this price - so it M U S T be real. This people underestimate the Chinese industry! I know we live in a world full of fakes (hair, fingernails, boobs and elections just to name a few you can see every day..) but antiques should remain antiques! Regards [This message has been edited by Postnikov (edited 08-01-2010).] IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 08-01-2010 04:56 PM
Thanks for the reply Postnikov. I agree that we do live in a world where many things are not as they seem and sometimes I wouldn't think people would go to so much trouble to fake things. By saying I didn't pay much for it though I mean in this case less than the cost of a sandwich, but I thought the silver content must be worth that much. IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 08-06-2010 04:24 PM
Here are the marks on the dubious Ruckert and Saltykov little boxes. Alas, while the cigarette boxes have their marks in the enamel, as they should be, here you see just two simple, obvious marks in the middle. Struck me as a bad sign. IP: Logged |
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Postnikov Posts: 133 |
posted 08-15-2010 04:56 PM
Hi - here is my answer to your enamel objects: First: Schkatulka I, (Fedor Rückert)is a total fake! If you are interested I can tell you how to recognise the difference (please by email, fakers are in internet too!). Second: Schkatulka II, 100% original, by Saltikov Ivan Dmitriewitsch (if there is a dot between И.С than it is Ignatij Pavlowitsch Sazikov! Please have a close look. Both are top enamel artists with big workshops and best, similar quality. Personally I would say it is Saltikov). Third: Cigarette case I, 100% original, marks as usual, unfortunately for me not legible, tried to enlarge but too unclear. If you have a better photo I can tell you who it is. Forth: Cigarette case II, 100% original, by Bernhard Johann Kochendörfer - I have no photos of the marks but it is absolute his style and quality. Better photos get better answers!!!!!!!!!!! Regards IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 08-16-2010 11:43 AM
Well I'm relieved that at least one of them survived! Thanks for the expert eye. IP: Logged |
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Postnikov Posts: 133 |
posted 08-16-2010 04:50 PM
Hi_ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? Not one survived but three! Regards IP: Logged |
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