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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Chinese Export defined?
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| Author | Topic: Chinese Export defined? |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 01-12-2005 10:22 PM
  
[01-2090] Hi all, During a conversation with another silver person the other day, we both noted that there's been a lot of interest in Chinese Export silver lately. There seems to be some confusion regarding exactly what defines "Chinese Export". Neither of us has access to any real references on it, though I know they exist. His feeling was that it only consisted of pieces made in a western manner with pseudo British hallmarks. My understanding is that there was also a great deal made in some over-the-top Asian designs that appealed to Westerners because of the foreign influence, and that many of the pieces are marked with initials, names, etc. often along with Chinese characters. We did both note that basically anything that looks even vaguely Oriental is now "Chinese Export". The worst thing I've seen is a 20th century silverplate Dutch revival ashtray sold as a 19th century sterling Chinese Export piece because it was marked with a "90". Made me nuts! Anyway, just hoping for some clarification. Cheryl IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 01-13-2005 09:07 AM
I know what you mean. The "Chinese export" overlabeling has become almost as bad as the "deco" labelling for anything made in the 20th century or "art nouveau" labelling for anything Victorian. It is one of my pet peeves that so many buyers have no clue as to what these styles actually are that they fall for this kind of inadvertent (a few cases) or purposeful (most cases) misdirection by sellers. Okay, I'll get off of my soapbox now. IP: Logged |
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mark77 Posts: 35 |
posted 01-13-2005 01:56 PM
hi there: the generally accepted definition of chinese export silver is silver made in china for use by foreigners, either in china or abroad. the pseudo-english hallmarks found on some pieces are only found on pieces made in canton in the late 18th and 19th centuries. many pieces made in the 1st half of the 20th century are marked sterling. many pieces marked 90 have a higher silver content than sterling. please read "chinese export silver " by forbes et al and "chinese export silver in the ralph chait collection" by kearns for much more information and beautiful pictures of outstanding examples. mark77 (a chinese silver lover) IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 01-14-2005 01:06 PM
I am planning to purchase the Chinese Export books if I can find copies. In the meantime, does anybody know of the maker "TC"? The mark occurs on some late 19th century family silver (Chinese Export), including six silver-handled dinner knives, a cigarette case, and a calling card case. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-14-2005 01:31 PM
Paul: Forbes (actually Forbes, Kernan and Wilkins) illustrates a TC mark(fig. 278, No. 218), but, unfortunately, gives no identification. IP: Logged |
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Silver Lyon Posts: 363 |
posted 01-14-2005 02:16 PM
Your maker TC will be TUCK CHANG who worked in SHANGHAI c.1880-Japanese invasion Address: 1285 Broadway, Hongkew, Shanghai. The maker's mark is often accompanied by a Chinese ideogram - if you can post a picture of it, I am sure a forum member will be able to translate... Hope this helps!  IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-14-2005 02:34 PM
The ideogram is shown in the Forbes illustration. It's phonetic representation is given as Kauan-Chi ("The mark K'uan"). The initials TC are identified as Tuck Chang & Co. in an appendix, but the photograph is not identified. Presumably they are the same, and are so considered in another reference, as it is listed as "quite prolific." IP: Logged |
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Silver Lyon Posts: 363 |
posted 01-14-2005 02:45 PM
I am away from my books - does Forbes give a translation, or just the anglisised form of the ideogram? Very impressive to know what it looks like before it is posted!! - just to theorise - 60 odd years is too long for most mortals how about the THEORY that Tuck Chang becomes TC&Co when its founder retires/dies...?  IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-14-2005 06:07 PM
No translation - phonetic transliteration only. All I have is a poor xerox of the appendices - not good enough to copy and post. IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 01-14-2005 06:31 PM
Silver Lyon, thanks for the info. Tuck Chang makes sense since some of my ancestors lived in Shanghai when these pieces would have been made. I guess they bought them before they were even exported. The dinner knife handles and card case are both marked TC with, as you say, a Chinese ideogram (the blades, incidentally, are Sheffield steel--perhaps the knives were purchased at a different time and place). I'll will post a picture tomorrow. The cigarette case, now that I look at it again, seems to be unmarked, but there is no doubt that it, too, is Tuck Chang. IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 01-14-2005 09:21 PM
Okay, while the reference books are out: how about maker "HC" also with an ideogram. It's on a spoon with an odd dragon design at the top. Belongs to my Mom, was going to wait to ask until I could get some pictures of some of her pieces to post, but since we're on the subject? Cheryl ;o) IP: Logged |
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Kayvee Posts: 204 |
posted 01-15-2005 06:07 PM
An article by Les Page entitled "Chinese Export Silver Pseudo Hallmarks Made in Canton 1785-1857" in Silver Magazine (Jul-Aug 2004)has several useful tables. According to Page, HC is Hou Cheong working in Canton, 1820-1860, but the article warns that these attributions are not definitive. IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 01-17-2005 06:04 PM
These are the knives, with their marks. The ideogram on the card case is different than that of the knives, and I think the card case is probably later. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-17-2005 10:11 PM
The idiogram in the unidentified TC Forbes illustration is different still. The TC listing in the table for Tuck Chang & Co. is unaccompanied by an ideogram. Whatever these idiograms signify, they may be unrelated to the identity of the TC mark. IP: Logged |
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jt251 Posts: 25 |
posted 01-19-2005 03:13 PM
There is an excellent web site on Japanese and Chinese Pottery and Porcelain that has a very small section on silver, gold and cloisonne. You might be able to find some help with the marks there. It is Antique Chinese and Japanese Porcelain Collector's Help and Info Page IP: Logged |
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