posted 05-02-2006 05:27 PM            

Hi,

I have recently bought the most beautiful Russian gilt silver small cup. I saw it in the window of a local antique store and just bought it because of the many colours and workmanship.

However I know very little about Russian silver. The only hallmark it has is the number 84 in a box. There are no other marks.

Perhaps you can tell me aprox. what date this is? I know the mark refers to the silver standard and not to date however perhaps this mark was used in a particular period?

Any help is very much appreciated.

Thanks.

posted 05-02-2006 06:25 PM            

Good luck,
Tom

posted 05-02-2006 06:35 PM            

Any idea when/if the 84 mark went out? Is it still used today?

Mostly I am interested in the date.
Thanks

posted 05-02-2006 09:46 PM            

tmockait: 1958 marks the year when the earlier worker's head mark is replaced by the hammer-and-sickle mark. The assay district letters are also changed at this time.

It's my understanding that from 1741 to 1896-99, the requirement was for the marks to express several important pieces of information: namely fineness and assay district, although the year of assay and assay-master's initials were present if space allowed. These marks would be stamped in addition to the maker's mark.

Although smaller pieces can often be stamped with a single zolotnik mark containing a symbol for the assay district (in addition to a separate maker's stamp), I don't know what to think of a piece which only bears the number 84 in a square. Perhaps I'm not knowledgeable enough, but it doesn't seem consistent with any of the authentic pre-1899 Russian silver I've seen.

As tmockait says, blakstone or Sazikov2000 would be able to provide a more definite answer.

posted 05-03-2006 07:09 AM            

Until I get a photo up (need to get hold of a camera) I remembered in an item I had seen with a similar mark (or rather lack of marks). Whist doing some research online for Russian enameled silver i came across an ebay item which had the same single mark of 84. Although it is a napkin ring not a cup and the enamel is not identical (the enamel on my cup is more delicate and refined) it does carry the same single mark of 84 and nothing else.

The item number on ebay is 7408960215, you can see a photo of the hallmark there and it is very similar to that on my cup. This item has ended and is closed, that's why I don't think there is any problem with me mentioning it here (I have read the forums guidelines and hope I am not wrong).

I am doing my best to get some photos up however I hope this helps.

Thanks for all the info.

posted 05-03-2006 01:21 PM            

Generally Russian silver bears the following stamps: silver content, assay office (with town mark) and master/artist or manufacturer. The stamps changed over the years, but you always can see in what time period the item was made. Enamel was stamped either on the bottom of the piece or between the enamel, depending on the available space and the composition (especially enamel CLOISONNÉ).

The mentioned napkin ring (enamel PLIQUE Á JOUR = translucent enamel, the base material silver or gold is cut and then the "holes" are filled with enamel to get the translucent effect) at eBay is one of the countless fakes you can now find in every auction over the world. They are easy to expose if you know your hallmarks - the fakers mostly use only the "84" because they do not have the correct other necessary hallmarks and/or technique.

It could be that your cup is from Persia - they also stamped with "84" and made nice enamel items in CLOISONNÉ or CHAMPLEVÉ. As mentioned before: a photo will bring a clear answer to your question.

sazikov 2000