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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 can't find this christofle flatware pattern
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| Author | Topic: can't find this christofle flatware pattern |
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dafff Posts: 4 |
posted 02-02-2010 04:15 PM
  
[26-1953] Hello everybody, My name is Johannes from the Netherlands and I came up to this forum on my search for answers about silver. I'm a self employed interior designer. In my job most of the time I'm busy with making interior objects for houses, bars, restaurants or shops (mostly made of wood). My interest in antiques started about three years ago. My interests go out to glass, silver, bronze, ceramics and lightning. I really like it to bite in the theory/history of antiques because in my work as interior designer most of the time I'm dealing with practical information. My other part of the mind likes to be cutled too... Slightly I'm putting this theory in practice by buying antiques or vintage items in sales or auctions and really enjoy it! I don't know if I have enough knowledge to contribute to this forum but I will try. I started to collect some books about (dutch) silver so who knows I might have an answer sometime! I have this beautiful silverplate flatware set from the Christofle factory but I can't find the right name of this (rare?) pattern. I can't find it in the books and I haven't seen it on the internet. I hope someone here knows what it is. I know the most regular patterns. I think the box is from about 1900-1910. It looks a bit Art Nouveau to me. So my questions are:
2. from what year is it? 3. how's a set like this called and what's the use of it (SOUP?) Thank you in advance for answering! Kindest regards Dafff from the Netherlands IP: Logged |
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silverhunter Posts: 704 |
posted 02-03-2010 05:27 AM
Hello, I hope that I have found your pattern at internet information it is to be find. The pattern number is CTF13. Description Silverplate Glossy, date unknown. Your opinion about 1920-1930 will be fine. Nice to have a total set of flatware by this factory. Compliments for your introduction, photo's etc. I hope you can show more silver from your side or put a question at the forum. I'm also dutch and enjoy all the information that there is to be find at this forum about all that international silver. Success with the hobby and enjoy the forum. The search function gives you also good topics about Christofle. IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 02-03-2010 10:25 AM
Interesting to see such a pattern and in a full service! It is a design that in the United States would be a variant on a fiddle-and-thread. The thread is also known (why I cannot say) as a French Thread. This motif dates to the 1820s originally and was made in variations, by many US silversmiths. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 02-03-2010 01:52 PM
To pick up on your question about the use of the set, customs vary in different countries. A set quite like this would be unusual here (England). I am not sure what size your spoons and forks are. If they are the larger, table size, I assume the spoons would either be for soup or for use as serving spoons - you can never have too many. The forks would be for the main course when they might have been accompanied by a separate set of "ivorine" handled knives. However, if they are the smaller, dessert size they would be used here for puddings - but our dessert sets usually have large serving spoons rather than ladles. However some pudding courses such as fruit salad or a rice pudding, for example, lend themselves to being served with a ladle. Selling separate sets for the main course and the dessert course of a meal might be to make for more manageable gifts on a wedding list. It can also be to reflect the practice of clearing the table before the dessert course and re-laying it (in which case the dessert spoons and forks might not even need to match those used for the earlier courses). Of course, none of the above need apply to a set that was neither made nor sold in England! IP: Logged |
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Kayvee Posts: 204 |
posted 02-03-2010 09:42 PM
Welcome to the Forums! To add a bit to the research that Silverhunter has done: your Christofle pattern has been given an inventory number CTF 13 by that silver replacement site, because they do not know the pattern name. It is no longer in production. If you want to know what Christofle called the pattern you will have to consult old Christofle catalogues. As Ulysses Dietz says, the pattern is a variation of the always popular Fiddle-Thread motif, and resembles the current Christofle Cluny pattern. Almost every manufacturer in France has made a Fiddle-Thread pattern, where the motif first appeared in the last quarter of the 17th C. Your set is called a “ménagère,” because it was purchased to set up a “ménage” or household. It is nice to have the complete boxed set with a table fork and tablespoon for 12 along with one serving piece - a soup ladle. Up until quite recently soup was served at every evening meal in France, so a ladle was a handy serving piece to own. These boxed sets were popular as wedding gifts beginning in the last quarter of the 19th C. A table fork and tablespoon (called a “grand couvert”) for 12 are standard for a basic set of flatware in France. The tablespoons are individual place pieces, not serving pieces, and are used for eating soup and all those wonderful saucy dishes (think boeuf bourguignon). The forks and spoons are oversize by North American standards, usually measuring about 21-22 cm in length. Enjoy your set! IP: Logged |
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dafff Posts: 4 |
posted 02-07-2010 05:52 PM
Thank you all for your replies! really helpful! The forks and spoons are quite big so It might be a set for soup as mentioned above. After some internet searching the pattern number I don't get much results. However... I have two catalogues of Christofle (1842-1883 and 1883-1891)and I found the pattern called "violon a filets" (silverplated on metal). Is the name pattern called CTF13 on a later date because it didn't get a proper name (like cluny)? IP: Logged |
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Kayvee Posts: 204 |
posted 02-07-2010 11:24 PM
Great news that you found the pattern name which translates as "fiddle-thread." The letter and number name is not one given by Christofle but by an American silver replacement service. It is their own inventory number for this pattern. Your service was used as standard flatware for eating anything, including soup. IP: Logged |
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