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odd nos on English silver

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Author	Topic: odd nos on English silver
cheesenips unregistered	posted 09-16-2001 02:32 PM An English silver tray I have has some numbers and a letter engraved on the back, and I'm very curious as to what they mean. Quote marks are mine and do not appear on the silver. The letter is an "N" in script with what looks like a little "o" at the top swirl, followed by the number "3" Then there is a space and the numbers "28 = 12". The numbers are nearly 1/4 inch tall. The hallmarks on the tray are a lion, followed by a worn lion's head with what looks like a crown on his head, followed by a lower case "u" within a shield with indentations (I think it is the 1755 mark), followed by what looks to be a WC, but this mark is on its side with the W at the bottom--the W is well worn. I would appreciate any information you could give me on what the numbers might mean. Thank you for your help. IP: Logged
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1800 Registered: Apr 2000	posted 09-16-2001 03:30 PM Are the numbers hand scratched in? Sometimes a silver item's weight would be scratched on the bottom. So if that were the case, "28 = 12" would mean 28 ounces troy, 12 pennyweights. That sounds reasonable for a tray. IP: Logged
akgdc Posts: 289 Registered: Sep 2001	posted 09-17-2001 12:09 PM Yes, the numbers 28=12 are what's called "scratchweight," indicating in this case 28 oz, 12 dwt. If you weigh the tray you should find this more or less accurate unless there have been alterations. The "No 3" means that the tray was one of a set. In wealthy households with large silver services it was common to mark pieces of hollowware this way in order to keep track of them and protect against theft. Your tray was undoubtedly part of such a service, in which other identical or near-identical trays were marked "No 1" "No 2," etc. If it has a crest or coat of arms this could help you identify the household to which it belonged. It sounds like a nice piece of silver. If it is indeed 1755 then the "WC" maker is probably William Cripps of London. IP: Logged
akgdc Posts: 289 Registered: Sep 2001	posted 09-17-2001 12:12 PM Also, rather than a tray, it is more likely a platter or serving dish of some kind. IP: Logged
cheesenips unregistered	posted 09-18-2001 08:01 AM Thanks so much for your help with these numbers. The "scratchweight" is close to accurate, using a rough scale that I have. There are no monograms or other such marks on the silver, just the hallmarks and numbers. I did incorrectly call this piece a tray, a serving platter would indeed be a better name. If it is ok to post a picture of the platter and hallmarks here, I'd be happy to do so. Another thing that has me puzzled is that there is a tiny perfectly round hole located in the center of the underside. And I was wondering why the makers mark wasn't stamped horizontally the way the other marks were. Thanks too for the lead on the makers name. I really appreciate all the help. IP: Logged
cheesenips unregistered	posted 09-18-2001 08:21 AM Oops. I'm a little slow and noticed that others have included photos. Here (I hope) is the platter and hallmarks. The hallmarks didn't photo very well, I tried to emphasize the "u". IP: Logged
akgdc Posts: 289 Registered: Sep 2001	posted 09-20-2001 01:24 AM Thanks for posting these. Looks like you were right on the date; I can't read the maker's mark in your photo, but in any case, ther was never any uniformity in stamping English hallmarks, so it's not unusual for a mark to appear sideways (or even upside down, for that matter). As for the small dot in the center, this is found on most such handmade pieces (sometimes on the top rather than bottom). It is, as I understand it, the centering mark that the silversmith made in order to trace the shape of the base and make sure everything ended up symmetrical. Are there any silversmith members of the forum who could explain this better. It is indeed, from what I can tell, a fine old piece of silver. Are you a collector, or was this an heirloom or chance discovery? Surprising that there's no crest or monogram. Perhaps it has been erased; look closely at the borders and you may see evidence of this. IP: Logged
cheesenips Posts: 6 Registered: Sep 2001	posted 10-04-2001 08:36 AM Thanks again for your help. I'm not sure if it ever had a crest or monogram. There is one area near the edge of the border which is a bit pitted. It is in the right spot for an engraving, but the rest of that area shows no signs of removal. Perhaps time has taken care of that. I like silver quite a bit, but do not feel knowledgable enough to be a collector. This piece was a very lucky find. IP: Logged

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