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Directions in Edinburgh?

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Author	Topic: Directions in Edinburgh?
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 05-08-2004 07:44 PM Thought I might ask opinions on the makers of two Edinburgh serving pieces of mine. The first has marks as follow (sorry for the poor photos, best I can do with curved handles on a flat bed scanner!): This piece is marked <flat top three turret castle> <thistle> "W" <King George> for Edinburgh, 1802-3. The maker's mark is "RG" (top is rubbed, could be "KG", but I doubt it). I find no proper "RG" identified in Edinburgh for that date (Robert Gordon is crown over script RG), though Wyler lists a possible attribution with question mark to "R. Green or R. Grierson" opposite the 1806-7 marks, but the date the mark(s) entered not specifically indicated. Pocket Jackson lists only an "RG&S" for Robert Gray and Son, though an "RG" mark for Robert Gray only is listed for Glasgow. There is a herd of other RGs listed for other cities. Any opinions as to what is the best bet here? The other piece is perhaps simpler: This piece is marked <spire top three turret castle> <thistle> "S" <King George> for Edinburgh, 1798-9 (though the pointed turrets appear to be a year too early, given that date mark). I can find no attributions for the "RW" maker's mark (or for "KW"). Guess I need a thicker book here. Any and all info welcomed and appreciated. TIA! IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 05-11-2004 01:14 PM Robert Gray of Glasgow is shown in Jackson III as having had silver assayed and marked in Edinburgh in 1806-7. I find nothing for your other mark, which I cannot make out clearly - you might care to clean some of the tarnish out of the maker's mark so that it could be read more clearly. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 05-11-2004).] IP: Logged
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 05-11-2004 08:26 PM Thank you, swarter, for the additional Jackson III info. Though the dates don't quite match, I would imagine that Robert Gray of Glasgow is likely the best fit. Re the other piece, there is no tarnish to speak of in the maker's mark. I just can't get a good pic of the mark with the scanner, given the curved handle, plus the mark was lightly struck and is partially rubbed. It is definitely RW within an oval cartouche, however (don't know why I even mentioned KW, it's definitely RW). Thanks again! IP: Logged
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 05-12-2004 10:20 PM Heck, what's one more! A new arrival (yet again an Edinburgh serving piece, don't know why I keep coming up with unattributed Scot silversmiths): Again, the maker's mark is lightly struck and partially rubbed, but is fairly clearly "JF" in a rectangular border, no pellet or period(s). (Note, no pellets or periods in preceding examples, either). (Note 2, I got a Pocket Jackson to augment my Wyler, but it appears I should get a full version of Jackson. Is this recommended, and which edition should I try to get? Or is there a better text for smith identification? TIA!!!) IP: Logged
t-man-nc Posts: 327 Registered: Mar 2000	posted 05-13-2004 10:48 AM This may be a red herring but "The Plate Collectors Guide", 1908 by Percy Macquoid shows a RG 1802 as a Robert Garrard....??? Old London Silver by Howard has a number of RG makers marks prior to 1800 but none of then seem to match your mark... "Smaug" IP: Logged
t-man-nc Posts: 327 Registered: Mar 2000	posted 05-13-2004 10:51 AM PS the Old London Silver by Howard was Published in 1903 so it wouldn't have the newer marks in cluded at the time this volume went to press anyway... "Smaug" IP: Logged
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 05-13-2004 12:13 PM Thanks, t-man-nc (noticing your last "name", are we related?). The mark of Robert Green of Chester ~1799 also seems to fit. (Talk about red herrings! I posted a comment here about my mark being more oval, had to go back and look again; the border is rectangular, but with rounded corners - had to edit the post! Sorry.) I guess I'd need info that either smith had pieces assayed in Edinburgh, as swarter has indicated for Gray (Wyler does imply this is possible for Green). [This message has been edited by nihontochicken (edited 05-13-2004).] [This message has been edited by nihontochicken (edited 05-13-2004).] IP: Logged
clive taylor unregistered	posted 05-16-2004 11:22 AM i am not very familiar with Scots silver, but one thing to rember with Edinburgh is that in 1784 plate duty was imposed on Scotland at the same time as itwas in England. Hence the George Head appears . BUT the only place to be legally get plate assayed was EDINBURGH - so ALL Scottish plate should have been assayed in Edinburgh until 1819 when the English belated realised that Scotland had more than one town in it and allowef Glasgow an assay office. As a result many Glasgow pieces 1784 -1819 were asssayed at Edinburgh during this period, along with some other Scots provincial silver. Most non- Edinburgh makers merely ignored the law and marked whatever they wanted, avoided the plate duty and saved money. Human nature does not change ! So for Edinburgh MARKED pieces of this period one should always check possible Glasgow (and other centres) silversmiths. IP: Logged
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 05-18-2004 12:58 AM Thanks, Clive, for that interesting explanation. Certainly opens up the possibilities. IP: Logged

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