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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 William Holmes?
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| Author | Topic: William Holmes? |
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Pinsabigail Posts: 35 |
posted 12-31-2004 07:51 PM
  
[08-0238] We have Exeter, 1820, berry spoons associated to William Holmes, but can not find a supporting reference to Holmes in Wyler or Tardy. Do you know anything about William Holmes and where his mark might be described/documented? Would you agree with this summation of these marks? Thanks. IP: Logged |
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PhilO Posts: 166 |
posted 01-01-2005 03:10 AM
Exeter, 1820 is OK, but WH is unlikely to be William Holmes. Although there was a silversmith called William Holmes, he worked in London at a slightly earlier period. Jackson does not show a WH mark for Exeter, but, in a list of silvermiths mentioned in the Exeter records, he notes a William Hope working at Plymouth Dock (renamed Devonport in 1824). Hope's earliest mention is 1816 and his latest is 1833. There are no others with the initials WH at the right period, so William Hope seems the most likely candidate. Phil IP: Logged |
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Pinsabigail Posts: 35 |
posted 01-01-2005 11:26 AM
Thanks, Phil. IP: Logged |
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adelapt Posts: 418 |
posted 01-01-2005 02:11 PM
Since William Hope of Plymouth Dock was noted in (the new) Jackson as a known silversmith, as well as the same information being recorded in two small booklets put out by the Exeter Museum, Phil seems to have got it for you. Note though that the "berry" decoration is not likely to be contemporary with the spoons. IP: Logged |
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mdhavey Posts: 167 |
posted 01-06-2005 06:06 PM
Adelapt, can you say more about the berry design on berry spoons, and why they wouldn't be contemporary with the making of these spoons (added later)? I once had a beautiful berry spoon from Scotland, late 19th century, and I must say wondered if the cut and repoussed berries had been added later. Either my spoon got little or no use over the centuries (possible) or the chasing was much newer. IP: Logged |
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adelapt Posts: 418 |
posted 01-09-2005 01:12 AM
The fashion for "berry spoons" seems to have been one which developed during the reign of Queen Victoria, probably later than 1850. They were manufactured new at the time, but older spoons which were only worth scrap value on the market were also "prettified" to make them more saleable. This has continued to be the case until recently, and most likely still occurs. Since the decoration makes them a pain to clean after use, many have tended to remain as display pieces. Decorated patterns were produced before the Victorian period, but usually for gilt dessert services, using high quality dies. These were top end products, quite different to what we usually know as "berry spoons". Since the altered spoons still carry the original hallmarks, many buyers have been lead astray since by dealers and auctioneers. A good friend of mine was still sending old spoons off to be "berried" into the 1970's. IP: Logged |
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IJP Posts: 326 |
posted 06-28-2005 01:29 PM
I just read Please explain mercury guilding to me, where I was linked to this thread. Wow, in that case, I guess these aren't original, then! (Mark of Geo. Smith & William Fearn, London, 1792-93) Learn something new every day! IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 06-28-2005 02:38 PM
These are not original in this form, either. The spoons were originally made and marked by Peter and William Bateman in 1807/8. and nicely decorated later by an unknown firm, as the (later) case is unmarked. They should not be considered "fakes" as one disbelieving new poster so indelicately put it, but new creations in the form of modifications of older, plainer spoons. Some, as these, are quite beautiful. See this thread (One that didn't get away) for another of a different sort. IP: Logged |
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