posted 03-19-2005 07:03 AM            

I do not know if one called Ms. Hare or the new librarian at the Hall, if it is a service that would be performed for, lets say, a 20th c. mark. Or should one not assume that Goldsmiths Hall (the Guild of ..) is a functionary of the Assay office (Government body..), which is in the ground floor of the Hall but with a very separate entrance.

It is also obvious that it is not the function of the Assay office to help people with historical questions but what about contemporary makers? Again perhaps it is Goldsmiths Hall's responsibility, in that it would be one more link from maker to the public. The Hall does a great job of promoting the trade (shows, education, and now paying for apprenticeships!), why not a published list of makers and their marks?

Times have changed and this infatuation with who made what is a modern phenomena (especially at the glacial rate that The Goldsmiths Hall changes) and perhaps it is time to make these records available. It is a huge task for the historical marks, let alone just this century, but like the Old Bailey records, a university or group like the silver society might be enlisted.

I apologies for this question turning into a rant but when the record is available, unlike this country, it seems obvious. I am curious if anyone knows if there is a move in this direction or if it is already available?

posted 03-19-2005 09:31 AM            

The London Assay Office itself concerns itself with current assay and I think has very little interest in historical matters.

The Goldsmiths' Company however maintains records going back to the 13th century and many of these are available to the public at their library at Goldsmiths Hall. Access to the Library is free, and but due to space and staff limitations by prior appointment only . Please remember that access is a privilege , not a right, as all funding comes from the Goldsmiths', not the Government. The library maintains a vast array of both printed works and Guild records, including the original and photo copy marks registers, and apprentice records , much of which is made freely available. Certain areas , eg the workmens' plates of the late 18th century onwards and the original mark registers are restricted for conservation and security reasons. Personally I have found the library very obliging in all matters, including free coffee and advice , but they do have limited time, space , staff and budget. Due to living light years from London I have not visited for some time , but have found David Beasley, who I think is still in charge, most helpful, even when asked for the most obscure bits of information by post.

I would thoroughly recommend the use of the Library for those with a specific problem which cannot be solved by reference to standard works. But consult Grimwade, Forbes, Culme and Jackson FIRST, as the library's staff resources are limited.

The Birmingham Office has a somewhat similar library, run, together with an excellent museum , by the very helpful Mrs Benedikz., although their hours are somewhat restricted. You get free coffee there too!

This was supposed to be a brief explanation- sorry !

In response to AGLEOPAR's specific question , can he visit to identify marks, the answer is yes, but he should first ensure that the answer is not already available in a standard work.

posted 03-20-2005 03:49 AM            

David Beasley is very helpful and extremely knowledgeable - but like all good experts overloaded.

posted 03-20-2005 08:59 AM            

I know of a private project to record every piece of pre 1700 British sterling, it was started with photos in boxes and now I think is going along digitally. This is a labor of love and will be a great data base when done. Then there is Wev's American smiths site, also such a great resource.

That Goldsmiths does not have a current Freeman (is that the term?) with big L's (pounds sterling, the key board does not have the Brit. $ equivalent) to do a project like this is perhaps more a matter of getting the ball rolling?