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Hanoverian Spoon

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Author	Topic: Hanoverian Spoon
asheland Posts: 935 Registered: Nov 2003	posted 10-01-2005 04:24 PM I just got this wonderful Hanoverian Tablespoon, London, 1751-52. Does anyone here know who this maker is? I am used to seeing the block style engravings on this type and period of spoon. This engraving is quite different, does it look original? The patina in the area looks well, there are no signs of a removal. asheland IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 10-01-2005 08:02 PM I can't match this exactly in Grimwade. Assuming the "bleb" in the lower left corner of the mark is covering the lower loop of a "B" the only similar mark is the 1839 mark of Richard Bayley, which has the same characteristic script "R", but in a conforming reserve rather than a rectangle. Bayley is recorded as active at least as late as 1748, and so at least might be a posssibility to consider. It is always possible that initials could be added at any time, but the use of script initials on spoons was not uncommon (although I do not know exactly when it first appeared) in the third quarter of the century, probably earlier in England than in the Anmericas, and was increasingly common towards the end of the century. IP: Logged
Kayvee Posts: 204 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 10-01-2005 09:12 PM My second edition of Jackson lists 1754-1755 London maker script RP as �? Robt. Perth,� the mark taken from tablespoons in the Day Collection. Hope this helps. IP: Logged
asheland Posts: 935 Registered: Nov 2003	posted 10-02-2005 03:47 AM Thanks, It does appear to be RP, and my books are very limited. I should consider a copy of Jackson's or Grimwade. I only have the Jackson's pocket edition which is very limited on makers. I appreciate the responses! asheland IP: Logged
FWG Posts: 845 Registered: Aug 2005	posted 10-02-2005 09:40 AM There's also a slim possibility it could be RL instead of RP. From Grimwade there's a near match to that in Robert Lucas, entered 1739. The RP mark attributed possibly to Robert Perth/Pertt has rounded corners to the punch, which your example clearly doesn't have. The Richard Bayley mark is in a 4-lobed cartouche, very distinctive. There's also an RR mark (2428) for a spoonmaker, but it wasn't entered until 1774. Regarding Grimwade and Jackson: they are not interchangeable. Jackson covers the full range of British production, with marks illustrated for each year. But the listings are far from complete for any city, and the marks sometimes lack the detail needed for proper identification -- at least in the 2nd edition which I have; I haven't checked the 3rd. Grimwade is more specialized, being only the marks of London smiths, taken directly from the registry books. But they are well organized and well illustrated, and almost half the volume is a biographical dictionary on the London smiths. Not only is the latter interesting to have, sometimes it provides some particular detail about their work that helps identification -- like if they're mainly known for spoons, for example. I'd consider both necessary if you're interested in British silver, although if one only did non-London work then Grimwade probably could be skipped. Note that, according to Grimwade, the registry for smallworkers for 1739-1758 is lost, as is the registry for largeworkers for 1758-1773, so for that period there likely are a number of people whose marks are not recorded. [This message has been edited by FWG (edited 10-03-2005).] IP: Logged
asheland Posts: 935 Registered: Nov 2003	posted 10-02-2005 03:13 PM Hi, I believe that to be correct (the registry for small workers) for that period being lost, as I am fairly familiar with Grimwade, and know how complete it is. I used to have a copy, and foolishly sold it when I needed the money. I'm not worried if I can't find the maker, as I know with a full set of London hallmarks, the maker MUST have been registered. asheland [This message has been edited by asheland (edited 10-03-2005).] IP: Logged

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