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Wm Bateman in New york

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Author	Topic: Wm Bateman in New york
Tad Hale Posts: 120 Registered: Jul 2005	posted 07-29-2005 11:25 AM Hello, Does anyone know if Hester Bateman's 3rd son William (born Sept 8 1745)was the same William Bateman from London working for Charles Oliver Bruff in July 1775. As far as I can tell,there is nothing known of this son William. William came over in the ship Minerva to Philadelphia and started working for Bruff in July of 1775 and was advertising on his own 3 months later. He advertised as an engraver, lapidary and jeweler. On the following March and ad appeared stating that William Bateman was a runaway servant heading to Boston, New Haven or Rhode Island to try and practice his trade. I guess further research would be needed, but I think it would be interesting to find one of the Bateman's working in America. IP: Logged
Kayvee Posts: 204 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 08-01-2005 10:58 AM I can't answer your question, but can refer you to an interesting article by D.C. Hawkes, "Silversmiths through the eyes of a genealogist" that appears in the latest edition of the Journal of the Silver Society of Canada. Hawkes has a 4-generation genealogy of the Batemans, and shows a different birth order for your William Batemen, son of John Bateman and Hester Needham. IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 08-01-2005 01:07 PM There were three William Batemans in this immediate family - Hester's son, her grandson (son of Jonathan), and great-grandson (son of her Grandson, William). Are you sure you have the right one? [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 08-01-2005).] IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1652 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 08-01-2005 04:12 PM From your desciption it sounds as if he were an indentured servant. In those days a sponsor could pay for a person's ship passage to the colonies in exchange for the person to be an unpaid servant to the sponsor for a set amount of time. It was a kind of selling oneself into a time-limited slavery. It sounds like Mr. Bateman ran off before his indenture requirements were fulfilled. IP: Logged
Tad Hale Posts: 120 Registered: Jul 2005	posted 08-01-2005 08:32 PM First of all I would like to thank you for your replies. The birth date I have for William Bateman comes from David Shure's, Hester Bateman book on p.5. It states that he is the 3rd son born to Hester, and was born on Sept. 8 1745, and that his baptism is registered at the Church of St. Giles. Nothing else is known of him after that, however there is a entry of a William Bateman, Goldsmith, that had a daughter named Sarah, that was born in St. Luke's parish in 1771, a parish where the Bateman's moved to in 1747. In Rita Gottesman's book vol. 1, The Arts and Crafts of New York,1726-1776, p.65, William Bateman advertises as a Stone Seal Engraver, in Rivington's New-York Gazeteer, on Oct. 20th, 1774. Also on p.65 and p.66 he advertises in the New-York Gazette and the Weekly Mercury, on Nov. 7th 1774 as a Stone Seal Engraver, Lapidary and Jeweler from London. He engraves Silver and cuts stones for jewelry etc. He has had the honour to do work for the nobility and gentry in London. On p.66 in the New-York Gazette and the Weekly Mercury, March 6th 1775, There is a reward of 8 Dollars to be paid for taking up a servant man named William Bateman, about 25 yrs old. He was born in England and came from London to Philadelphia on the ship Minerva, Arthur Hill, Master. The said Bateman is a Lapidary and Jeweler by trade and has worked with Charles Oliver Bruff in this city. He left this city about 3 weeks ago and was heard to say that he was going to New Haven, Rhode Island or Boston to try his business. The above reward and all reasonable charges, will be paid to any person that will bring the above servant to Peter Berton(Who is this). On p.34 and p.35 in the New-York Gazette and the Weekly Mercury, July 18th 1774, Charles Oliver Bruff advertised that he had just hired a Stone Seal Engraver, who engraves in the neatest manner. In his Runaway ad, he does sound like an indentured servant but the ads prior to that sound like he was working on his own. Possibly Peter Berton paid his way over here and farmed him out to Bruff, but why would he be advertising on his own after that. Hester's Grandson and great grandson are too young to fit in this scenario and that is why I wonder if this to be her long lost son that nothing seems to be known about. Thanks, Tad [This message has been edited by Tad Hale (edited 08-01-2005).] [This message has been edited by Tad Hale (edited 08-01-2005).] IP: Logged
Tad Hale Posts: 120 Registered: Jul 2005	posted 08-01-2005 08:44 PM kayvee, Do you have an address for the Silver Society. Thanks, Tad IP: Logged
Kayvee Posts: 204 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 08-01-2005 09:18 PM The editor of the Journal of the Silver Society of Canada is Douglas C. Hawkes. He can be reached at dhawkes@ee.ryerson.ca. The Society itself can be contacted at 47 St. Clair Avenue West, Suite 1100, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M4V 3A5. Hope this helps. IP: Logged
bascall Posts: 1629 Registered: Nov 99	posted 08-18-2007 10:45 AM As they used to say during my time in Britain in the '70's and '80's, I have a query. Does anyone have the date the maker's mark on this spoon was registered at the London guildhall, and does this spoon indicate that the elder William Bateman returned to England after his time in America? Also, this is my first time seeing the sovereign head mark on a piece of 1781/2 (if I've dated this spoon correctly) London silver. My references and everything else points to the sovereign mark beginning to appear on British silver in 1784. Thank you in advance. IP: Logged
Tad Hale Posts: 120 Registered: Jul 2005	posted 08-18-2007 01:11 PM Bascall, Jackson shows this mark attributed to William Brown (probably). Which means that it could be his mark or someone else's. I cannot find any other records of William Bateman returning to England or staying in the U.S. I am still trying to find out if Hester's son William did work in New York or if this is another person by the same name. As far as the crown mark it shouldn't appear until 1784/85. It sounds as though the Brits think that this William Bateman was Hester's son working over here. Thanks, Tad IP: Logged
bascall Posts: 1629 Registered: Nov 99	posted 08-18-2007 03:03 PM Tad, thank you. More than one site on the internet identifies this as William Bateman's mark which unfortunately clouds the issue. For the time being though, the mark will have to be unattributed, but leaning towards William Brown as Jackson suggests. About the sovereign head, I still don't know what to make of that. There was certainly no deceit on the part of the person that sold me this spoon. It was part of a lot of unidentified items that was bought on my part in sort of a grab fashion. IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 08-18-2007 04:03 PM quote: Originally posted by bascall: Does anyone have the date the maker's mark on this spoon was registered at the London guildhall . . . . Also, this is my first time seeing the sovereign head mark on a piece of 1781/2 (if I've dated this spoon correctly) London silver. My references and everything else points to the sovereign mark beginning to appear on British silver in 1784. Grimwade has this mark (and 3 other similar ones) as registered to W. Bateman I on Feb 15, 1815. Yous spoon dates to 1821/22 - the crowned lion was last used in 1822. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 08-18-2007).] IP: Logged
Tad Hale Posts: 120 Registered: Jul 2005	posted 08-18-2007 05:26 PM Bascall, William Bateman I (1774-1850) is not Hester Bateman's son, he is the second son of Jonathan and Ann Bateman, and is Hester's grandson. I am looking for Hester's son who I think came to New York and according to Jackson your mark is shown for the first time in the year 1783/84. IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 08-18-2007 07:58 PM The mark 1783/84 mark (attributed to Wm. Brown)is in the old edition of Jackson; it has been dropped from the latest edition, and so may be considered to have been included in error. IP: Logged
bascall Posts: 1629 Registered: Nov 99	posted 08-18-2007 09:57 PM Thank you both for stating the obvious. The reference material does get the best of me at times. IP: Logged

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