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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 georgian hallmarks
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| Author | Topic: georgian hallmarks |
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geoff956 Posts: 16 |
posted 12-09-2005 07:34 PM
  
Can anyone clarify for me please? I have 3 georgian teaspoons which show a clear lion passant, letter 'O' and head of George 111.I can't make out the maker's mark. As a newcomer to silver collecting I cannot understand why there is no city mark. Any help much appreciated. Thanks. IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 12-09-2005 08:46 PM
Geoff, We always encourage you to post a photo and to say a bit about yourself and why you are interested in the information (are you a collector, dealer, etc.) In answer to your question, absence of a town mark usually meant the piece was made in London. If the "O" is a capital and it has the duty mark for George III, the date should be 1809. A photo of the marks would allow us to confirm this and perhpas help you with the maker. Welcome to the forum, IP: Logged |
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geoff956 Posts: 16 |
posted 12-10-2005 04:46 PM
Hi Tom, Many thanks for your reply and helpful information. I have started collecting pre Victorian silver but know little about it, although I have limited experience of modern silver. I purchased the spoons on eBay, rather blindly it has to be said. I would like to have posted a photo but I don't think my camera is up to it. Hope to rectify that soon. Thanks again
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 12-10-2005 07:38 PM
If your local library has a copy of Jackson's Hallmarks, that would be your best source of information. It retails for over $300 dollars, which is way out of my price range (fortunately, our library has it). Wyler's Book of Old Silver is much more affordable. Advanced collectors have found errors in it, and it is devilishly difficult to use for anything but English sivler. Still it is not a bad place to begin. I picked up a copy for $10. Best of luck, IP: Logged |
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geoff956 Posts: 16 |
posted 12-11-2005 08:07 PM
Thanks again Tom. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2377 |
posted 12-11-2005 09:41 PM
Maybe I have the wrong Jackson as my copy cost only a fraction of $300 new. The one I have is Jackson’s Silver and Gold Marks of England, Scotland and Ireland, edited by Ian Pickford. Is there another Jackson? IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 12-12-2005 01:07 PM
You have the right one. Publisher's retail sticker price was $89.50. When things get scarce, prices go up to whatever the market will bear. Now, the companion volumes by John Culme are another story. . . . IP: Logged |
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Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 |
posted 12-12-2005 02:29 PM
The absence of a city mark on small items for London was to prevent unscrupulous silversmiths from assaying very small items, and then putting the marks onto larger ones to avoid paying so much duty. For buckles and tongs no date letters were added until c1790 and the town mark never seen until the 19th century. For the Georgian period Grimwade " London Goldsmiths 1697 -1837" is far superior to Jackson for London makers marks and details. Be very careful - you are entering a world that takes over your life and finances. The very next move should be to get your partner equally hooked. Its cheaper than divorce . IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 12-12-2005 03:24 PM
I was thinking of the full size, hard cover edition of Jackson. The pocket version is less than $25 (much less if you find it used), but I don't know if it is as comprehensive. Clive is much more knowledgeable about the references than I am. I do echo his warning about marital bliss, though most of my spats with my wife over silver have to do with negotiating wall space for displays rather than expense. I make it a policy not to spend more than would upset me if I found out the piece was 100% fake. I also feed my habit by helping friends id family pieces free of charge. It just occurred to me, that since I teach history, perhaps I could do a lecture on hallmarks and then write my silver expenses off as a tax deduction. Hmmm, any of you who study silver for a living have ideas about what is allowed - I won't hold you accountable (no pun intended)? Tom [This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 12-12-2005).] IP: Logged |
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Silver Lyon Posts: 363 |
posted 12-13-2005 07:05 AM
Re: The original enquiry Look in the thread entitled 'misinformation' in the General Forum, posted by me I am afraid! This should identify your date letter, Good Luck  - do let us know!IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 12-13-2005 11:08 AM
Silverlyon, I know about the posting in question, but I did not use the web site when I made the tentative id of 1809. Without pictures can we be sure of which date it is? If it is a capital "O" and if the duty head is George III, then the date would be 1809. A lot of "ifs" which is why we need a photo. Tom IP: Logged |
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IJP Posts: 326 |
posted 12-13-2005 08:28 PM
As to comparing the pocket-size Jackson's to the larger hardbound tome...: Really, I find most of the marks I come across in the pocket edition. The larger volume is more comprehensive, I think, and I do occasionally have to turn to it for answers. However, I think that the pocket edition extends to later dates than the other. Or I may just have an outdated copy of the larger. IP: Logged |
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geoff956 Posts: 16 |
posted 12-14-2005 08:26 PM
Silver Lyon, Thank you for your assistance. I have checked your guide and have no doubt the year is 1789. Additionally one of the three spoons is actually marked with a 'P' which also matches the 'P' for 1790 and not that of 1810. A couple of things still confuse me though. 1. Your 1809 example shows a small lion passant and the 1789 a larger one.(My spoons show the larger one) In my pocket guide 'English Silver Hallmarks' Edited by Judith Banister the smaller lion runs from 1776 - 1795 with the larger one thereafter. Am I getting this wrong somewhere or do I need a different guide? 2. Not sure which years the 'blips' appear on the bottom of the lion passant. Mine are rounded as per your example: GS WF 1789. IP: Logged |
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