SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate.

Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look.

How to Post Photos

Want to be a Moderator?
customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  British / Irish Sterling
tline3open  English coffin end

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   English coffin end
agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 12-23-2008 12:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One normally thinks of coffin-end spoons as being typically American but there is the occasional English made example to be found. Here are two teaspoons, by Thomas Wallis, London 1807, and Jonathan Hayne, London 1821. Pickford’s “English Flatware” illustrates another Thomas Wallis example from 1808.

I have only come across Old English examples, and mostly teaspoons, though I recall seeing a pair of tablespoons some years ago. I wish I had thought to keep a note of their maker and date. Anyhow, it is a rare pattern in England and clearly didn’t catch on here for some reason despite its success in America.

I don’t suppose there is any way to be sure which country invented the coffin end, but it somehow seems unlikely to me that Americans would have enthusiastically adopted a pattern from England that was not proving popular. I am inclined to think this is an early instance of England copying America and making the spoons either for export or for the limited market of Americans or admirers of American fashion in England, much as the occasional French style spoon was made here in the mid 18th century.

IP: Logged

argentum1

Posts: 602
Registered: Apr 2004

iconnumber posted 12-24-2008 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for argentum1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The English examples I have seen are always a heavier gauge silver than the American counterpart. I would agree with you that the style is quite possibly of American origin although I know of no proof.

IP: Logged

swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 12-24-2008 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There have been other mentions of these spoons in the forums. Here is one that illustrates two other examples (Coffin End Old English???), the first from 1810 and the others from 1815 (maker EH, not in Grimwade), and another, earlier discussion (English coffin-ends).

IP: Logged

FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 12-24-2008 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The legend has always been that the pattern was developed as a memorial to Washington's death, but I've never seen any real evidence given to support it. And I'm pretty sure I've seen examples attributed prior to 1799....

IP: Logged

agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 12-24-2008 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Swarter
Thanks for the references to earlier threads. Picking up on the question of whether there are faked English coffin ends around, I can say that they do exist. I suppose it is a sad fact that, because a rarer pattern can command a higher price, the unscrupulous will be tempted to clip the ends of plain Old English style spoons. Careful inspection is called for! All the spoons shown in these threads do at least fall within the right date range. I would want to look very closely at any example earlier than 1800 or much later than my 1821 spoon.

The maker can also be a clue because in England this was not a standard pattern offered by all makers. My impression is that most of the relatively few coffin ends came from the Thomas Wallis workshop (Jonathan Hayne who made my second example had been apprenticed to Wallis, then went into partnership with him, only entering his own separate mark in 1821 on the retirement of Wallis). However, as I have not kept any record of the marks seen on spoons I did not buy, I hesitate to be dogmatic about this.

It may be worth commenting that on the Wallis/Hayne spoons the back of the stems is plain whereas the spoons by EH shown in one of the earlier threads have a moulding at the stem end like that found on a normal Old English pattern spoon. That probably just demonstrates different practices in different workshops. However, one clue to a possible fake can be that just the pointed tip of the moulding is left, the rest having been clipped or filed to create the coffin end shape.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2022 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices