|
|
In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
|
|
| How to Post Photos | Want to be a Moderator? |
|
|
In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
|
|
| How to Post Photos | Want to be a Moderator? |
|
 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 Both English hallmarks and Foreign Hallmarks
|
 SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! |
next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: Both English hallmarks and Foreign Hallmarks |
|
suepower Posts: 5 |
posted 02-02-2006 04:32 PM
  
Hi, This is my first post ever. I have some silver spoons which have both english hallmarks and what looks like foreign ones. The english hallmaks are, markers mark of AL, lion passant, h, f in a oval shape punch and the london town mark. The foreign marks are a crab, a like shape bell, marks mark of DR and one which I can't make out. I'm wondering if these spoons were made overseas and then imported into England which required them to be assay before they could be sold as sterling silver. Does the f stand for foreign? Can anyone help? IP: Logged |
|
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 |
posted 02-02-2006 07:40 PM
Your deduction is totally correct. In 1867 an Act (30 and 31 Victoria c.82) was pssed requiring an extra mark to be struck on imported wares . This took the form of a capital F in an oval punch. This was replaced by a Phoebus (sun) mark in 1904, then by a Leo mark in 1906. There is more detail in Jackson , from whence I have shamelessly copied this info ! IP: Logged |
|
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 |
posted 02-02-2006 07:45 PM
AL as the "makers" mark will be that of the importer or retailer. The modern term for who we still call the "maker" is "sponser" - which reflects the reality that the mark is only the person responsible for submitting silver for assay, not necessarily the actual factory , guy or guys who made it . IP: Logged |
|
suepower Posts: 5 |
posted 02-02-2006 08:12 PM
Thanks Clive for the quick response. I thought the spoons had fake hallmarks. Talking about fake hallmarks, I have some English silver with no town mark ie makers mark, passant and date letter (sometimes a royal head). I was told that these pieces would have come from either London or Sheffield. Is this true? Are these fakes? Why did they leave out the town mark? Thanks again for your help . This forum is excellent source of info for any collector of silver. IP: Logged |
|
Waylander Posts: 131 |
posted 02-03-2006 04:31 PM
As far as I am aware (and I may be corrected), some pieces of silver (usually quite small pieces) were not stamped with a Town Assay mark - in such cases, I tend to assume a London origin. Waylander IP: Logged |
|
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 |
posted 02-03-2006 04:41 PM
The use of a town mark prior to around 1790 -1800 was rather complicated . Virtually all major pieces of London silver that were assayed (and until 1784 if made to order and hence "not exposed for sale" they did not have to be assayed ) had the town mark and a date letter in addition to the Lion Passant and the makers mark. As per your hallmarks book ! Minor pieces like buckles, sugar tongs , sugar nips etc often only had the Lion Passant and the makers mark. Reason for this is believed to be the habit of silversmiths of having say a pair of buckles assayed (very cheap fee for assay ) then cutting the marks out and applying to a very much larger object. This avoided paying the far higher assay charge and any duty - and may well have concealed lower than standard silver (Spoons are another story which I am not really familiar with the details of - doubtless some kind member will tell us please ). The introduction of the duty in 1784 which required an Inland Revenue Stamp as receipt brought the matter to a head and by 1790 even small items usually had a date letter - but not neccesarily a town mark . In London I have seen pieces as late as 1820 with date letter - no London leopart . To really confuse you Sheffield and Birmingham almost invariably had the cities crown or anchor respectively and a date letter ab initio fro the founding in 1773. Why ? They were being watched like a hawk by London, who really hated their new found status and were looking to make trouble if they put a foot wrong. Other assay ofice practice varied. Another trick which we encounter often on buckles is for silversmiths to send a dozen pairs to assay in London, then sell twenty four pairs, one of each pair being unmarked. No contemporary evidence of this practice but I've seen enough pairs with one only marked to draw the obvious answer. IP: Logged |
|
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 |
posted 02-03-2006 07:43 PM
I would be carefull in assuming London for un-town marked silver . Exeter very rarely had a town mark on buckles and tongs until the 19th century. Nor in many cases did Newcastle and both pairs of Chester pre 1780 buckles I've got lack the town mark also. Exeter is usually easy to spot - the lion passant is very often rectangular, no cut corners and no bottom nipple. My wife calls it "the letter box lion ". But she's strange IP: Logged |
|
Waylander Posts: 131 |
posted 02-05-2006 03:28 AM
Clive - yes, point taken re the dangers in "assuming" London. Only the other day a pair of unmarked tongs, which I had bought prsuming London, turned out to be Exeter 1790. A nice error to make though  Waylander IP: Logged |
|
tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 02-05-2006 01:35 PM
Sue, Welcome to the forum. Could we see a photo of the marks and the entire piece. Pictures add to the enjoyment and help educate us. Thanks, IP: Logged |
All times are ET | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
  |
|
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a
|
1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums. 2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development). 3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post. |
|
copyright © 1993 - 2022
SM Publications
All Rights Reserved. Legal & Privacy Notices |