|
|
In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
|
|
| How to Post Photos | Want to be a Moderator? |
|
|
In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
|
|
| How to Post Photos | Want to be a Moderator? |
|
 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 Saucepans
|
 SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! |
next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: Saucepans |
|
agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 12-29-2010 07:40 PM
  
Though I mostly collect spoons, this doesn’t stop me buying other silver that catches my eye and is affordable. I try to keep within a budget and often settle for a piece that is a bit tired or that is not clearly marked rather than save up for a more pristine example. Some years ago I found myself fancying the idea of a large silver saucepan. I suppose that a saucepan shares the two main features of a spoon – a bowl and a handle. One thing led to another and I have ended up with the three shown below. They have been languishing/tarnishing in a cupboard for several years and I’m afraid I didn’t get round to cleaning them up before taking this snap. The large saucepan is about 4 inches high at the rim. I’ll come to is marks in a moment. The brandy saucepan is by William Fleming, London 1724 and the toy saucepan by David Clayton circa 1725 (maker’s mark only). The large saucepan has one very worn mark on the rim that appears to match an unidentified IN recorded by Jackson on various London items in the 1680s to 1690s. It is too faint for my photography to catch it. There is also a cluster of marks round the centring dot on the base. They all appear to be identical, perhaps something like a pine cone, and don’t look English. If the saucepan really was by the late 17th century IN you would expect it to be fully marked and a saucepan from c.1690 would be a rare though not impossible find. I think it more likely to be from the early 18th century, either made in continental Europe with IN the English importer/retailer or possibly made by an unidentified English provincial IN and then at some stage exported when it acquired its base marks. Any helpful thoughts on this would be appreciated. IP: Logged |
|
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 12-29-2010 09:50 PM
Not my area of expertise, but to start the discussion, I think the marks surrounding the center punch are several strikes of an Augsburg city mark. The one directly above the punch appears to be the most complete, and looks like the style of mark used throughout the 17th Century, but is not clear enough to match to one particular mark in Rosenberg's table of drawn marks, and I don't know if the dating of the marks is now considered accurate, since I have no more recent literature for Augsburg. He has no IN (or NI) master's mark in his listing, which is certainly not complete. I defer to anyone with better information. IP: Logged |
|
agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 12-30-2010 11:59 AM
Thanks Swarter. I had wondered about Augsburg but hesitated to suggest it because I know so little about marking practice beyond the shores of Britain. I’ve also wondered about pseudo marks. I don’t see the saucepan as an example of Hanau-type historicism but it is not unknown for pseudo marks to have been applied in an attempt to make an unmarked early item more saleable. I should have said more about the IN mark on the rim. There is a mullet below the very faint initials. I cannot get the initials to show in a photo (they really are just a shadow) but my picture shows the best image I can get alongside a rather blurred photo of the mark from Jackson which I think it resembles. I think you can just make out part of the mullet and the v shaped bottom of the cartouche. However, I am certainly not confident the mark is an exact match. IP: Logged |
|
Polly Posts: 1971 |
posted 12-30-2010 01:12 PM
Can you say more about silver saucepans in general? Silver is a great conductor of heat--does that make it an especially good saucepan material? Or were these meant for show rather than use? It seems like a very expensive material to use for cooking. IP: Logged |
|
agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 12-30-2010 05:02 PM
I wish I could give a fuller answer to your question, Polly. I’m clear that these saucepans were for use in the dining room. I have seen examples of the so-called brandy saucepan from the late 17th century through to late 19th. I wouldn’t put it past the late Victorians to have used them for warming brandy but my understanding is that they were really intended for sauces (which may or may not have been laced with brandy). I have read somewhere, but cannot lay my hands on the reference, that the sauce could be as simple as melted butter. I imagine the saucepans were filled in the kitchen but could then be warmed over candles, or over the fire in the dining room, to stop the sauce congealing. The larger saucepans seem mainly to date from the late 17th/early 18th century. Perhaps they fell out of favour as more “elegant” solutions emerged for keeping the contents of a dish hot. I am not sure what exactly they were used for. They are still too small for soup. Perhaps it was just larger quantities of sauce or perhaps some sort of gruel for diners who had lost their teeth (you will see that I am guessing wildly). I find the simple form of these saucepans, combined with their heavy gauge of silver, attractive but haven’t so far come up with a modern use for mine. David [This message has been edited by agphile (edited 12-30-2010).] IP: Logged |
|
Polly Posts: 1971 |
posted 01-01-2011 02:52 PM
Happy new year, David! I think you should use them for melting chocolate to dip strawberries in. Silver's excellent heat conduction makes me scratch my head. Don't people find china teapots & coffee pots keep their coffee and tea hotter than silver? IP: Logged |
|
agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 01-01-2011 05:22 PM
And a Happy New Year to you too, Polly! I prefer strawberries with sugar and cream, but I might just try your melted chocolate one day. An interesting point about silver’s conductivity. In the case of saucepans, of course, the metal allows the pan to be heated or re-heated over a flame. You are right, though, that a silver teapot cools a bit more quickly than a china one. However, I have never seen a tea cosy used on a silver teapot. I imagine that in practice the pot would be filled just enough for the number of cups to be served initially and then topped up later from the tea kettle if second cups were to be served. I suppose a silver pot was more showy than a china one, as you suggest, and less vulnerable to breakage. David [This message has been edited by agphile (edited 01-01-2011).] IP: Logged |
|
adelapt Posts: 418 |
posted 01-02-2011 10:17 AM
It's a bit of a drift off the actual topic, however... A silver teapot, well polished, and particularly with ball feet, loses heat very slowly when well filled with boiling water. They radiate very little, and I've found with the one of mine I experimented with, that it was far too hot to hold a hand against even after an hour (no cosy on it). IP: Logged |
All times are ET | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
  |
|
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a
|
1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums. 2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development). 3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post. |
|
copyright © 1993 - 2022
SM Publications
All Rights Reserved. Legal & Privacy Notices |
