posted 01-10-2011 05:41 PM            

Anyway, the ladle arrived today, and I need some help identifying it and some advice about repairing it.

Here's the ladle:

posted 01-10-2011 05:41 PM            

The bowl has a charming double drop on the back. The back of the handle is stamped twice with the mark IC:

So first of all, who is this IC? There seem to be lots of possible silversmiths with the initials J.C. or I.C. working around the 1790s (am I right that that's when this was made?). Any idea which one this is?

Also, I need some advice about getting it repaired. I would like to be able to use it occasionally as a punch or soup ladle, and I would like to make sure it doesn't get damaged further.

Is the damage to the bowl the sort of thing that a good silversmith can repair easily?

Is it a bad idea to have it repaired--would that damage the authenticity and make it less desirable for other collectors? Not that I'm planning to sell it, but I don't want my heirs (or myself a few decades down the line) cursing at me for ruining it.

posted 01-10-2011 06:31 PM            

That is a wonderful ladle. The dents would be easy to remove, however the problem with fixing the slight tears is finding silver that matches the color of the rest of the bowl.

The one time I repaired a similar tear on a cup the inside had a gold wash that was mostly gone and a new gold wash covered up the slight difference in color. Your ladle is much rarer than the cup I repaired and the slight tear will not interfere in your using it for it intended purpose.

posted 01-10-2011 06:54 PM            

Is Irish silver from this period rarer than American? I would imagine lots of it got melted down during the famine in the 1840s--or did the famine not affect people rich enough to own silver soup ladles? (This IS for soup, right? I think of punch ladles as being smaller.)

What's the significance of the star, do you know? Is it just decorative, or does it symbolize something?

So what's the consensus about repair? Get the dents taken out and be gentle with the bowl edge, but don't try to repair the tears?

Stuart, if you're confident that this is Irish, maybe you could move this thread to the British/Irish Forum?

posted 01-11-2011 01:19 PM            

Dublin silver of the period does not seem particularly rare to me, but I think Irish provincial silver is relatively rare and sought after. I’m afraid my library does not extend to reference books on Irish silver so I cannot help with the IC mark. If it could be confirmed as the known mark of an Irish provincial maker I imagine it would make your soup ladle very interesting to collectors who specialise in this field.

posted 01-13-2011 09:36 PM            

If you do a computer search of Irish star and bright cut, you can find a retailer's website with similarly marked spoons with the Irish star design that the dealer has tenatively identified as American, but there is no support in the listing for that attribution.

posted 01-13-2011 09:44 PM            

I think perhaps the ladle is a toddy ladle, which would also be consisten with Irish attribution as well. I have never seen this particular form, but the relatively small and deep bowl make it more usable for liquor than soup.

posted 01-15-2011 11:59 AM            

I would take care before I had a silversmith make the hole - could you not use it as it is?

regarding origin - If nobody found that makers mark. Alternatives exist. Germany was my first. It is not danish which is possible but no match on mark.

posted 01-15-2011 05:30 PM            

That is correct. However star differs. I have a spoon from the Netherlands with a star. And remember this deep cut was a weapon towards Old Sheffield plate - so the deep cut was used in m any countries.

posted 01-17-2011 04:17 PM            

The star feature is found on tongs of many makers, including Scotland and Newcastle.

posted 01-22-2011 08:21 AM            

quote:

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Hi Polly,

This is a lovely ladle which I think is certainly Irish. The style of bright cut decoration with the cartouche for the owner’s initials is classically Dublin, Cork or Limerick and the style of engraving is not Scottish or from Newcastle. The heel peg or strap on the back of the bowl where the handle joins is the type usually associated in Ireland with a ladle.

It is also unlikely to have come from England or Scotland because the duty on Silver at the time was lower in Ireland than elsewhere in the UK, as it was then. This was only raised to the same level in 1807.

Date wise my feeling is 1775/1790 as many people have already said.

The marks are difficult but the double makers mark usually indicates provincial (not Dublin where they were strict about silver being fully marked).Of the Cork marks and records nothing stands out. There are no initials for gold or silversmiths with the initials IC or JC (J is often shown as I in the 18th century) There are 2 watch makers for IC in Cork but it is again unusual for watch makers to make spoons.

However there was a Limerick goldsmith/silversmith called John Cullen who is mentioned in 1784, no mark has been attributed to him in the books I have. However the following link takes you to silver in the Limerick Museum. On page 20 there is a Masonic Vessel with a mark of IC or IG which is attributed to him, sadly they do not show the mark but if you email them the photograph they may check it against the mark on the flask.

Masonic vessel, Limerick silver by IG or IC. Globular with masonic engraving

Masonic vessel, Limerick silver. Flat backed globular vessel with short neck and ribbed below rim, non opening lid surmounted by a crest at back which is perforated with three holes; spout at 45 degrees to body on either side, both opening into interior, with ribbed band around rim; front engraved with a floral cartouche at centre of which is an open compass on a set square with two towers above and one below; crest of a lower arm emerging from a cloud at right with hand holding a mason's trowel vertically; motto below "Concordia Fratrum" Marks, fairly worn, on back at centre "I (a star) C or G" in a rectangle (John Cullen or John Gloster a possibility?)

If it proves to be Limerick then it is pretty rare. Good luck.

Limerick Silver Spoons
Regards,
Charles

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posted 01-27-2011 03:16 PM            

The silversmith told me it had been repaired before, 50 or 100 years ago, which made me feel better about repairing it again.

Now, who's coming over for hot whiskey punch?

posted 01-27-2011 03:22 PM            

It is beautiful and that was fast turn-a-round too. I bet you are very glad you had that fixed up!