fake? or no fake? condiment bottle spoon

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fake? or no fake? condiment bottle spoon

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Author	Topic: fake? or no fake? condiment bottle spoon
vathek Posts: 966 Registered: Jun 99	posted 01-31-2008 10:54 AM [01-2622] This one has me at a bit of a loss. It appears to be a snuff spoon by Joseph Angell I 1824, measures 3.5" overall and is very clean crisp condition. I have looked for info regarding the use of crystal/glass snuff bottles during this period and have come up with nothing. Could it have been used as an accessory to a table snuff? Or is it a fake? Let me hear what you think. Thanks IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 01-31-2008 04:56 PM Hi Vathek! This may sound a little strange but the spoon looks like an ear spoon, (for cleaning ears back in the day). It may be part of a Dresser set & could be set in a bottle much like a perfume dauber. Ears spoons were very popular in that time period. Enjoy the day. Jersey IP: Logged
FWG Posts: 845 Registered: Aug 2005	posted 01-31-2008 05:46 PM Is the stopper ground glass, or plain? Does it extend up into the silver ferrule? It looks somewhat suspicious to me, but that may just be because I've never seen anything like it. IP: Logged
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 Registered: Jul 2000	posted 01-31-2008 06:27 PM I'm equally baffled by the object, and also wonder if it is a reused spoon for another purpose. To throw another spanner into the works I think the mark is more likely to be that of James Arthur ( 10th April 1823 - Grimwade 1771) as Joseph Angels sole marks ( 7th October 1811 -Grimwade 1769) are in plain rectangular punches. Both makers are registered as plateworkers which does not help us either. IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4132 Registered: Apr 99	posted 01-31-2008 06:28 PM It is a stopper for a condiment bottle. They are not uncommon and can take a wide variety of forms. Here are some from Picford's book I especially like the devil's head for cayenne pepper sauce. IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 01-31-2008 09:18 PM If those are for condiment bottles what is this for? (spoon 3 1/8", container 2 1/2") IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4132 Registered: Apr 99	posted 01-31-2008 09:27 PM Powdered mustard? Salt? Ground pepper? Short of a catalog entry, it's just guesswork. Nice piece. IP: Logged
vathek Posts: 966 Registered: Jun 99	posted 02-01-2008 08:23 AM Another WEB site with marks of London silversmiths which give the mark as Angell's: quote: Maker: Joseph Angell I Period: 1827 (entered 1824) Seen on: Basket, cruet, ewer, salt, salver, wine cooler Revised 02/01/2008 4:47 pm EST: quote: Maker: (Probably) James Arthur (entered 1823) Period: 1823..1827 Seen on: Spoon The spoons in Wev's post pretty much cinch that this is what this object is. thanks IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 02-01-2008 12:30 PM wev, What about snuff? IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1652 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 02-01-2008 01:08 PM Given the relatively small size of the bowl I would think something like hot mustard or some kind of a hot pepper type condiment where a small amount makes sense to me (as opposed to something like marmalade, chutney, jam, or honey where you may want larger servings) IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 02-01-2008 01:52 PM What about the small size (1/4" diameter) of the opening? [This message has been edited by Richard Kurtzman (edited 02-01-2008).] IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4132 Registered: Apr 99	posted 02-01-2008 02:22 PM quote: wev, What about snuff? Haven't used it for years, but I did enjoy Red Rapporee. . . Snuff is certainly a possibility, but the lovely scoop on the handle seems to say dry goods/spices to me. I suppose it is like so many of those odd serving pieces -- if you bought it, you can use it for whatever suits you. IP: Logged
PhilO Posts: 166 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 02-01-2008 04:21 PM As the author of the "other web site" mentioned a few posts above, may I say that I am no longer certain of my attribution of this mark to Joseph Angell I and am inclined to agree with Clive Taylor that it is more likely to be James Arthur. I just need to get to a copy of Grimwade to check this. Incidentally, vathek, may I use your picture of the mark as it is better than my existing example? Phil [This message has been edited by PhilO (edited 02-01-2008).] IP: Logged
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 Registered: Jul 2000	posted 02-01-2008 04:48 PM With regard to the Angel(l) or Arthur question the excellent website mentioned by vathek has now changed the attibution - although a trip to Goldsmiths Hall is really necessary to confirm if Grimwade is right or not ! There are mistakes in Grimwade - but mighty few for the amount of material. IP: Logged
vathek Posts: 966 Registered: Jun 99	posted 02-01-2008 04:57 PM PhilO: happy to have a copy of my mark used. Can someone post a pic of another version of James Arthur's mark? Can't find it in Wyler [This message has been edited by vathek (edited 02-01-2008).] IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11573 Registered: Apr 93	posted 02-01-2008 05:03 PM I don't think I have ever realized PhilO is the owner of the www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk WEB site. It is really a great listing. If you are interested in UK makers you need to check PhilO's site. IP: Logged
feniangirl Posts: 36 Registered: Mar 2002	posted 02-04-2008 08:44 PM PhilO, I checked Grimwade, and per his book this would be the mark of James Arthur, 10-4-1823. No.1771. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11573 Registered: Apr 93	posted 03-01-2008 09:57 AM another example: IP: Logged

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