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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 Sugar Tongs
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| Author | Topic: Sugar Tongs |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 08-26-2014 01:33 PM
  
I’ve just got a new iMac. After years of struggling with Windows I am now struggling with a system where everything is a bit different. This post is partly just to test that I have worked out how to cope with images but is also partly prompted by recent references to tongs in other threads. I thought it might be interesting to show a few examples of very early sugar tongs, or tea tongs as they were called at the time they were made. The picture shows the following from the top (extracted individually from my inventory so not to scale with each other). Andiron type tongs, c.1695, by Abraham Harache, London. I think the designs show an interesting progression. The next step was to be the introduction of scrolls and curves to the arms and shafts. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1971 |
posted 08-26-2014 10:54 PM
You certainly got my attention with those wonderful old tea tongs! Thank you for posting, and good luck with the new computer. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 09-07-2014 12:32 PM
Polly’s kind comment would normally have been sufficient encouragement for me to come straight back to show off a few more tongs. I have been delayed simply because I am rather slow at mastering my new computer and finding where photographs have got to among the files transferred from old pc to new iMac. This slowness has not been helped by the distraction of various inescapable domestic chores. Each time I get back to the computer I find I have forgotten what little I had managed to grasp the last time. However, by virtue of taking some new photographs, I think I have now got to the point where I can share a handful of further examples, all London made, that I think are pretty or interesting. The first is a pair of silver gilt rococo tongs of c.1726-28, marked DB and Lion Passant. The DB may possibly stand for Denis Boursin who has the right initials and was listed by Healey as working in London around the right time. I had thought this might be an exceptionally rare pair but when David Shlosberg was writing his indispensible Tea Tongs book he managed to turn up another unmarked example, and a third similar unmarked pair has turned up more recently. That still makes the pattern pretty rare. Even if mine is not unique, it is at least the only one of the three to have been hallmarked. I had been put in touch with David because he was wanting to check out as many pairs of tongs as he could. Most of my small collection was of no special interest and simply fed into his statistics but I benefitted from his help in identifying some makers and assigning dates where I had been uncertain. However, as well as the pair above, the pair below caught his interest - and yet again he managed to turn up another example, once more denying me the smug feeling that I might have something unique. The Green Man engraved on the hinge is more common as a medieval architectural decoration and probably also relates to the rare Woodwose or Wild Man finials on a few early, 16th century spoons. It is odd to find him on an item of circa 1735 that would have graced a refined lady’s tea table. The marks on my pair are too worn to read but David thought the other pair, and thus probably both, were possibly by Robert Collier. I wanted to add a couple more examples but the photo host tells me I am trying to exceed the file size limit so they will have to wait. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11573 |
posted 09-07-2014 01:06 PM
quote: Its not a storage issue so it must be the size of the file you are trying to upload. Right now the file size max size allowed to be uploaded is 1024kb. Have others had the problem? IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1971 |
posted 09-07-2014 07:57 PM
agphile, you are much too modest. Those are glorious! I love the almost Egyptian-looking gilt pair with the snakes, and the Green Man is great too. More, more!! Please? IP: Logged |
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June Martin Forum Master Posts: 1343 |
posted 09-07-2014 09:06 PM
I love the Green Man face on the hinge. Great candidate for the Faces in silver threads. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 09-08-2014 08:27 AM
Yes, the individual photos were too big and, as of yesterday, I had not discovered where on the computer to see the size or to resize. Having gone through a complex, and in the event unnecessary, process of transferring the photos to my old computer, resizing them there and transferring them back, I have just discovered where this can be done on the new computer! I cannot understand why a couple of pictures taken in the same session as all the others should have ended up so oversized. I suspect computers and digital cameras were designed to challenge me, or I was designed to challenge them. Anyhow, I hope this now works for the couple of examples I couldn’t upload yesterday. This pair by John Mansfield, c.1735, is similar in style to but more delicate than the Green Man tongs. The contrasting decoration on either side of the hinge is what catches my interest here. A squirrel on one side and a bird of prey that might fancy the squirrel for dinner on the other. They are not engraved as crests. Finally a later rococo example by Thomas Justis, c.1765. One side of the hinge has been left completely undecorated, presumably to allow for an owner’s crest or initials which do not seem ever to have been added - I don’t think the scratches you can see are the traces of a vigorous erasure.. The blank disc looks rather lonely when none of the rest of the surface area has escaped decoration but I am resisting the temptation to add my own ownership inscription. Incidentally, I have to apologise for repeating myself. I see that I did post the Green Man tongs in the Famous Faces thread some time ago. I had forgotten that. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1971 |
posted 09-08-2014 04:46 PM
These just get better and better! I adore that squirrel! What other treasures do you have squirreled away? IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 09-08-2014 06:39 PM
Polly, I don’t think it gets better and better. Just a few further examples to show what I mean.  This pair of naturalistic, leaf and ladybird tongs (unmarked) ought to date from c.1740. However, the quality of the casting and finishing is nowhere near as fine as on some of my teaspoons or my Francis Harache mote spoon from that period. This makes me wonder whether it is a copy cast from an original rather than the real McCoy, though doubtless there were differences in quality between contemporary pieces.Then just a couple of my more normal pairs. The larger pair below is by Henry Brind, c.1765. I quite like the way the crinkle-crankle shafts are echoed on the finger rings. Not unique - David Shlosberg illustrates a similar pair. I could probably dig out three or four further pairs that wouldn’t look very different from one or other of these two but I don’t think it would add much to what I have shown unless I start boasting about quantity rather than quality. They would probably just demonstrate that I am not very good a weeding out a collection of sub-collections that have had time to grow to an unreasonable size. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1971 |
posted 09-09-2014 11:15 AM
agphile, do you hear that knocking on your door? That's me, come to insist that you serve me tea with your wonderful tongs while you show me your entire silver collection. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 09-09-2014 12:56 PM
Outstanding. Thanks for posting and keep them coming! IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 09-09-2014 07:19 PM
Polly, you are welcome to drop in for tea any time. It's just a short hop across the Atlantic. Swarter, thanks. You will see I have decided to switch to mote spoons for the moment (and by all means drop in for tea too) IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1971 |
posted 02-06-2019 05:05 PM
I'm very excited about my new tongs, which I bought as silverplate last week for the price of a sandwich. David Shlosberg in his Tea Tongs book lists a pair of andiron-style tongs found with the mark "AH crown above, pellet below," which he describes as "unascribed, ? late 17th century." I think it's probably the same mark that's on my pair, which looks very similar to the third pair agphile posted in this thread. Mine has a lion on the opposite shell end, which is a bit puzzling, because it's stamped in between the ridges, not on the ridges, if you know what I mean. (If you don't, maybe the photos will help.) Agphile, what do you think of these tongs? IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1971 |
posted 02-07-2019 09:22 AM
I heard from Dr. Shlosberg, who says my tongs are by Abraham Harache. According to Wikipedia, "Abraham Harache was born in 1661 and was baptized at Quevilly on 9 October.[5] He, like his brother, was a master goldsmith by the time he arrived in London although he appears to have been a smallworker (producing mostly spoons and snuff boxes). He was here by 22 August 1686[11] but was not endenizened until March 1700[12] and there is no record of his mark although it has been tentatively identified. He too lived at Compton Street on his arrival in England but moved to St. Giles in Great St. Andrew Street, Seven Dials in 1708. He died in 1722 and was buried at St. James’s Paddington." IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2377 |
posted 02-07-2019 02:51 PM
Abraham Harache may have been one of the Huguenots that immigrated to England about that time. What a great find. Sugar cubes are easy to find so you certainly could use these for their intended purpose. Or they could be used for picking up packets of Splenda from a sugar bowl. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1971 |
posted 07-11-2019 12:12 AM
Hey, agphile! Look what I found--the twin to your Gundy Roode baluster pair: IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2377 |
posted 07-11-2019 02:14 PM
A lovely example. This has been a really great month for you and your finding hidden treasures. IP: Logged |
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The top pair by John Gorham, c.1750, seems to me a straightforward example of a typical style. The mark you can see on one of the shafts is a scratch, not a repair. I could have made them look more respectable by photographing the other side if I had thought of that in time. 
