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tline3open  Potosi silver spoon.

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Author Topic:   Potosi silver spoon.
silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 03-26-2009 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1827]

Today I received a lot of silver by post, in this lot are forks and spoons made by several countries Holland, Great Britain,France, and one I can't discover it's original state.

The spoon it concerns is marked with five marks above is a shield with a standing eagle, spreads his wings. The second is a circle within the letter S. The third is a circle within the letter P the fourth is a circle within a crown and finally the fifth is a square within the letter R.

Also are the words stamped Potosi Silver.

Does anybody know if this spoon is made from silver of the Potosi mine in Bolivia.

Which country/ies are using these mark names like potosi silver.

What is the alloy of the silver?

How can you date in this case a spoon, is the letter R a year letter or is the pattern to recognize for a certain period?

Tomorrow I send some photo's of the spoon.

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adelapt

Posts: 418
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 03-26-2009 08:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for adelapt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My understanding is that markings including "Potosi Silver", "Nevada Silver", "Bengal Silver", "Argentine Silver" among others were all used on EPNS, nickel alloy and other white metal flatware, but not on actual alloys which used silver itself. The sources of these items seems to have been the U.S.A. and Britain, lateish 19thC-early 20thC.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 12:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All the marks, including Potosi silver, are trade marks for various types of nickle silver alloyies. These were the forunners of stainless steel. Generally, they hold up well to use and the knife blades really cut.

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1768
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 02:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As adelapt says, such marks as "Potosi Silver" are just deceptive marks placed on low-end silver plate with no real silver content. This was chiefly an American phenomenon of the late 19C/early 20C.

It was a practice of some lower-end silver plate companies to use "content" marks and alleged company names that might deceive customers into thinking the product was real silver: "Brazil Silver", "Nevada Silver", "US Sterling Co.", etc. None of these actually contained any real silver, aside from really crummy silver plate.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 02:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you all for your reactions.

So it is a misleading name if you look for the Potosi silver mine in Bolivia you think for a short moment perhaps it is. The spoon is leight of weight and I think it isn't copper inside. I wonder what kind of material it is. I was also thinking about the age of around 1900. The pattern is immitation of cheap pearl rim decoration and concerning the marks I was doubt SP in stead of the misleading printed names POTOSI SILVER.

So now I am awake know new facts and thanks for let me standing with two feet on the ground. This spoon was one of several spoons and forks and I will ask in another topic about a little English rather old ? EP pattern spoon. Knowing the EP story and without the words Potosi Silver on it. I have read about the Potosi silver mines in Bolivia(a lot of historical information). I wanted to react at first, but I will send a few photos of the spoon for warning that nobody has the thought to have the idea he/she had bought a silver item.

Thanks a lot.

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1768
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 03:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All such pieces of deceptively marked silver plate that I have seen did not use copper. In order to cut expenses, they used brass or inexpensive white metal alloys.

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PhilO

Posts: 164
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 04:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PhilO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is an ad from an 1896 trade directory which you might find interesting.

For those of you not familiar with our older currency 15/6 means 15 shillings and 6 pence (12 pence to the shilling, 20 shillings to the pound). It is interesting to note that white metal came in different grades and also that there was quite a substantial price difference between the basic product and the electroplated version.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great to see information like this Philo, so thank you very much for showing this advertisement. Dated 1896 and given so much information. It's also nice to see the price information and the pattern style they used. (Of course there were more patterns). I have to find my cable for camera connecting and than can send the Potosi spoon pictures. I wonder if it is a dinner spoon or it is a server spoon. The bowl is rather big in proportion with the steel.

It was very good information and I was helped with it!

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote




The measures of the spoon are total length 8 inches, stele is 5 inches long, the length of the bowl is 3 inches and 1.5 inches wide. And the weight is around 50 grams of Posoti (fake) silver.

The name Moe can be a short name for Moeder
Like Mother and mam?

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1768
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am interested in the fact that the company's slogan is "Wears white throughout". Was it more common for silver plate marketing to advertise the invisibility of wear, thereby implying that the finish would, inevitably, wear, or to advertise that the finish would not wear?

[This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 03-27-2009).]

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Help! What do you mean Paul with this question, please can you put the question for a simple minded continental person? Thanks a lot(I hope you will!) I've no dictionary at this moment. Look and find one tomorrow.

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Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 03-28-2009 04:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
silverplated on brass - when you use it and polish the brass becomes visible and you can see the basematerial.
When basematerial is silvercollored...

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 03-28-2009 05:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks a lot Hose_dk that's the point!

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Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-30-2009 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moe is also a family name. In the 1990 U.S. census it ranked number 3,496 in the list of most common family names in the country. While this is not common, the list has 88,000 family names so it is more common than some.

Another possible meaning for Moe is that it is a nickname sometimes used for women whose given name is Maureen which is a somewhat common given name for women in the U.S.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 03-30-2009 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kimo, I prefer Maureen (beautiful name) in stead of moe if you don't mind? In Holland we say "nou moe", if somebody is surprised. But it surprised me how many moe's there are living in America. If they all engraved their flatware my spoon, is just common.
But thanks for the statistic information.
I wonder if the spoon is for dinner or serving, I hope the last because the bowl is rather big or the Moe's had..........

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 03-30-2009 11:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To add to the muddle, Moe is usually a Norwegian American name.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 03-31-2009 04:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In this case the engraving is done nice but it doesn't rise the value. Moe means also in Dutch tired. etc., etc., etc.

Dale, I know what you mean but it is nice to combinate the meaning of a word or name with several explains and see the nationalities are using it with different meanings. In Holland we have only German, French, Spanish, Vikings and perhaps more influences.

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