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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 Fiddle, thread and drop
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| Author | Topic: Fiddle, thread and drop |
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trefid2 Posts: 74 |
posted 08-21-2016 07:59 PM
  
[26-2587] I came across a pair of fiddle, thread and drop pattern sauce ladles yesterday while out and about. They were made in London 1785 by George Smith III. IP: Logged |
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Vetdaddy Posts: 70 |
posted 08-21-2016 11:21 PM
Nice catch! The condition looks great and a pair at that. It's all about the hunt! IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 08-22-2016 04:49 AM
That’s a nice pair of ladles. I don’t recall seeing an earlier example of this particular variant. Indeed, it is my impression that the fiddle pattern in general only began to be a standard offering in England in the mid to late 1780s. However, it can be quite frustrating trying to check on the prevalence or existence of the fiddle pattern in the 1780s. All too many careless or ignorant dealers advertise spoons as from the 1780s when they are actually from the 1820s after the leopard’s head lost its crown. I cannot say whether there is a particular Smith/Fearn link to the pattern or it is simply that they were among the most prolific spoonmakers of the period so examples with their marks are likely to be the most common. It is the case, though, that my one example of Fiddle, Thread and Drop is a tablespoon of 1794 by Smith and Fearn. Like your ladles, it lacks the shoulders that are normally associated with English fiddle pattern spoons. Meanwhile, Pickford illustrates a pair of Fiddle, Thread and Drop forks by Smith and Fearn of 1795 that do have soft shoulders. It is always pleasing to catch the moment when fashions are changing. I suspect your ladles do just that. IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 08-22-2016 03:27 PM
Excellent pick up! IP: Logged |
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trefid2 Posts: 74 |
posted 08-22-2016 10:44 PM
Well written agphile. Pickford's example appears to have the drops on the front of an upturned fiddle. I assume because forks of the period were usually upturned,this pattern wouldn't work on the back thus the reason for the front decoration. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 08-24-2016 06:48 PM
Yes, you are right and I wonder whether this may offer part of the explanation for this attractive pattern being so rare. When we switched our preference to Old English and Fiddle pattern spoons with downturned stem ends, we continued to make our forks with the upturned stem in the Hanoverian style. I think this was because of the way the fork is held in use at a British table. It never seemed to bother anybody that spoons now turned one way with a tiny moulding on the back at the top of the stem while forks turned the other with the moulding on the front. With the thread and drop pattern, the drop makes the difference between spoon and fork rather more obvious. The drop also makes it difficult to put a crest or initials on the front of the fork so that has to move to the back, but after 1781 the space there will have been taken up by top marking. For the forks illustrated by Pickford the assay office must have been asked to strike the marks a little lower to allow space for the crest with the result that they look rather crowded. I wonder whether this sort of bother may have discouraged silversmiths or silver buyers from going for the pattern. Or was it just that the pattern is pretty discreet and those willing to pay a bit extra for some decoration preferred it to be a bit more in your face? IP: Logged |
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trefid2 Posts: 74 |
posted 08-24-2016 10:18 PM
Makes me wonder if there is a canteen service of unknown size out there in this variant. Seems strange that someone would have only ordered two ladles. I don't recall having seen a canteen service in this pattern. I'm thinking if there is, it would be a good looking set when displayed. IP: Logged |
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